Leica SL compared to others of its kind

[YYV_146]

It's twice the size...

Yes, but you can put a leather half-grip or full battery grip on the A7 series and they come closer in size. The D810 is a substantially larger camera than the D750, but I would put them (roughly) in the same category of professional, all-rounder Nikon DSLRs.

The problem with the SL is that any M lens smaller than the Noctilux ASPH or the 75mm Summilux is almost tiny on the body...keeping the body M-sized with a built in EVF seems like the sane option. Center EVFs are essential to long lenses, though, and Leica seems to want to people to believe that the SL is a serviceable sports camera. It is not.

 

[Calzone]

Seems reasonable in the sense that the a7 is aimed at the dslr. As in disrupt the market (gate that phrase, but it appropriate here) and steal sales from those who might otherwise buy a dslr. Consider even the name, the SL. What else was called that. 😉

Funny thing is that at PhotoPlusExpo I brought a black SL2-MOT that I had Sherry assemble from two rescued cameras: one was a shelf queen that had a dead CdS cell and a desilvering prism; and the other a beaten in SL2 that was so heavily used that the lens mount needed replacement, but it had a perfect prism and the meter worked. Sherry simply made me one good camera from two, and the end result was a museum piece fresh from 1975.

At the Leica SL booth I flashed my camera and beat on the reps behind the counter asking, "Why couldn't you guys come up with a fresh name?" "Why do I need a new SL when I have an old one?" LOL.

The SL impressed me, but I have to be happy with the cameras I already have (too many).

Cal

 

[jsrockit]

Yes, but you can put a leather half-grip or full battery grip on the A7 series and they come closer in size.

Ok, you win.

 

[flavio81]

A milestone in photography

A milestone in photography

I'm really really impressed by the Leica SL.

This is the first Leica camera I would like to own, and the first digital camera i'd consider to use over a film camera. And let me put things into perspective, I'm a film camera shooter, although I also own two full frame DSLRs which I almost never use. I was also a sort of Leica hater, at least given the half-hearted, conservative products they had released in the last 42 years (that is, since the introduction of the Leicaflex SL2 camera). No more Leica hate from now on.

I think Leica did the most OBVIOUS and SMART thing a camera designer which understands commited photographers would do.

The state of the art pre-Leica SL:

Mirrorless cameras? They don't have viewfinders comparable to optical viewfinders, in magnification, resolution and quality. This one does, as far as i can read about.

DSLRs? Mirrorless cameras can mount a far wider lens variety, and have optical advantages (being able to design the lens to sit closer to the sensor gives the optical designer more freedom for correcting aberrations). They are also potentially smaller and potentially more reliable (less parts to be knocked out of alignment, less moving parts). And a bit more silent.

Modern DSLRs from Canikon? They don't support MANUAL FOCUSING, which has had a comeback since the last 10 years. What I mean is that they don't support it in a serious way. Which means a huge viewfinder with good focusing aids.

What I think the leica designers did was very very easy, in fact i think this was perhaps the EASIEST camera to design in years, at least the basic specs were very easy to infer if one wants to make a SENSIBLE, professional camera in 2015 or 2016:

- Weight? The old pro cameras of the past weighted between 700 to 900 grams. The SL is within that limit.

- Build quality should be so high it should justify the price tag. Body material should be metal and feel like it.

- It should be reliable and feel reliable

- It should have an excellent viewfinder that should not make you want to go back to an optical viewfinder

- Sensor output should be clean and rich in dynamic range, with enough resolution.

- Lens mouth size should allow a lot of freedom designing lenses, and adapters for widely available lenses should be provided.

- Full features for video production should be provided. Video quality should be state of the art for a camera in this price range. I can bet that at least half of the sales of this camera will go to the pro video people.

Lenses? For me the trio of 50/1.4, 24-90, and 90-280 is totally sensible and the logic was easy, very easy to infer:

- "Since the adapters will allow users to put all kinds of lenses in the camera, we should provide them something that is not easily avaliable in lenses today, which is... Make a zoom lens with a very useful range (24-90) which has optical quality so high, that the photographer would not wish to replace this lens with prime lenses. Optical quality extremely high including pleasing bokeh, of course." From what i see, the 24-90 is a no-holds-barred lens, it has 4 (FOUR) aspheric lenses and I can see that Leica pulled out all stops and did not try to shrink down the lens size if this was going to negatively impact performance. WELL DONE LEICA!! The OIS was just an icing on the cake.

- Same for a 90-280, i would have been happy even if they did a 90-200, which would complete an extremely useful 24-200 range, but they went the extra mile and the dimensions are not far from the 70-210/2.8 zooms all pros are using, so it's a sensible choice.

- 50mm (or 35mm, or 43mm, or 45mm...) lens should exist in all decent systems.

So with this trio, the photographer has almost anything he would need to have for 90% of optical situations. Though i would suggest to add an 90/1.8 or 90/1.4 as next release, and an extreme wideangle would be good as well. But hey, the M and R lenses are out there to cover those needs as well.

So finally, it took Leica about 50 years but they finally did it -- they aimed high, pulled all out the stops. I think you can now write Leitz camera milestones very simply:

- Original Leica: there was nothing like it.
- Leica M3: the best viewfinder avaliable in any 35mm camera up to that point, backed with excellent build quality, compactness and excellent lenses.
- Leicaflex: Up to that point the best built 35mm SLR with the most refined mechanism (although I'd contend that the Canon F-1 of 1971 comes close) and the best viewfinder, with perhaps the best lenses of their time.
- Leica SL

Between the Leicaflex and the Leica SL, i would say Leica (or Leitz Wetzlar) did nothing that was truly innovative or a product that was fully perfected in all respects and putting itself in a very favorable light compared to other product. No, it played the "niche luxury brand" game, instead of going back to the spirit of the 50s M3, or the spirit of the 70s Leicaflex --- the spirit of bringing the BEST product possible. This is not only the true renaissance of the Leica brand, but I dare to say this is the renaissance of GERMANY in cameras. This camera is state of the art, very leicaish, and very German.

 

[Calzone]

I was told, by the Leica store in Soho, that Leica was aiming at DSLRs. They might not know everything regarding Leica's thought process, but they probably know more than me.

John,

In my case the SL replaces a Nikon D3X. The files from the SL crushes the files from the D3X even though both are 24 MP. A 27 inch EIZO does not lie.

I tried my Noct-Nikkor on the SL, and at F1.2 it is easy to nail the focus. The processor is from the Leica "S" and I purposely filled the 33 shot buffer once which is actually hard to do. kinda comparable to emptying a F3 with MD-4 and a fresh roll.

I also mount a 50 Lux "E60" which is like an ideal lens using stacked "L" to "M" and a "M" to "R" adapters. Wide open this lens has the right balance of sharp and soft. The colors are like from the Leica "Q" (same sensor). It seems that the SL likes SLR lenses for ergonomics. To me it is like a digital "R10." Interesting to note that Jono Slack compares the weight and size of the SL and a SL2 as being comparable. Funny thing is I also own that SL2-MOT.

In another thread Leica developed an "Image Shuttle" and tethering is possible. The SL is a brutal camera. I love it.

Cal

 

[Godfrey]

Having owned the A7 for a year and a half before getting the M-P, the M-P does a better job of being a "mirrorless" body for M or R lenses than the A7. And the SL does a better job than the M-P, by far.

The SL is in a class of its own at the present time.

 

[SaveKodak]

The SL is unique in that it exhibits the kind of hubris of which only Leica is capable. It's similar to luxury watches in the sense that those proudly exhibiting one are asking to be mocked behind their backs. It's the kind of camera that the Emperor Has No Clothes was written for. The SL is basically a Nikon D600 wrapped in some nice metal with bazookas for lenses, which somehow manage to be both gigantic and variable aperture. But don't worry, they announced that a 35mm f2 will be announced at the NEXT Photokina. Have fun with your luxury D600. :bang:

 

[f16sunshine]

The SL is unique in that it exhibits the kind of hubris of which only Leica is capable. It's similar to luxury watches in the sense that those proudly exhibiting one are asking to be mocked behind their backs. It's the kind of camera that the Emperor Has No Clothes was written for. The SL is basically a Nikon D600 wrapped in some nice metal with bazookas for lenses, which somehow manage to be both gigantic and variable aperture. But don't worry, they announced that a 35mm f2 will be announced at the NEXT Photokina. Have fun with your luxury D600. :bang:

SK you sound quite bitter. You do make a point.
It's frustrating to think this camera has been out for a full year and has only three system lenses available (only the 50mm f1.4 prime)
That said. It may be the best "universal back" with this sensor size available at the moment.
It was a breakthrough for Leica and continues to set a quality standard for evf only mirrorless cameras.

 

[brennanphotoguy]

EL OH EL. This must all be satire. Really, I like the SL but come on, saying it has no competitors is ridiculous. It's a second rate camera to many others which it competes against. The price for the lenses is absurd and the price for the body is about $1500 too high even given Leica's luxury tax. This camera has just been made obsolete by the X1D and GFX. Both of which have more lenses upon release than this system after a year.

 

[SaveKodak]

SK you sound quite bitter. You do make a point.
It's frustrating to think this camera has been out for a full year and has only three system lenses available (only the 50mm f1.4 prime)
That said. It may be the best "universal back" with this sensor size available at the moment.
It was a breakthrough for Leica and continues to set a quality standard for evf only mirrorless cameras.

The Sony A7RII sensor is objectively a far better piece of technology for less than half the cost.

 

[SaveKodak]

EL OH EL. This must all be satire. Really, I like the SL but come on, saying it has no competitors is ridiculous. It's a second rate camera to many others which it competes against. The price for the lenses is absurd and the price for the body is about $1500 too high even given Leica's luxury tax. This camera has just been made obsolete by the X1D and GFX. Both of which have more lenses upon release than this system after a year.

+1.

How did Hasselblad manage to make 3 medium format lenses available where as Leica has so far only made two lenses that nobody asked for, and one that should have been available from day-1, that you still can't buy actually. And frankly there is no way the 50mm 1.4 SL is better than the existing Otus, or better in a meaningful way than the Sony Zeiss 50 Planar.

 

[f16sunshine]

Go pick one up and use it for 15mins and then pick up the sony and use it for 15mins.
The quality of the build is obvious. Image quality .... I can't say there is a remarkable difference at 24mp.
There may or may not be. I just have not made a serious comparison not have I seen any that were all that "scientific" .
Is it worth the dough.... that'sa completely subjective question and one that does not deserve mocking.

 

[brennanphotoguy]

Go pick one up and use it for 15mins and then pick up the sony and use it for 15mins.
The quality of the build is obvious. Image quality .... I can't say there is a remarkable difference at 24mp.
There may or may not be. I just have not made a serious comparison not have I seen any that were all that "scientific" .
Is it worth the dough.... that'sa completely subjective question and one that does not deserve mocking.

I use them both on a very regular basis, actually had an SL yesterday, and sure, it's heavier and more weather sealed than the Sony bodies but it's not "better" in any way, shape or form outside of the EVF being larger and having higher resolution.

 

[Larry Cloetta]

The SL is unique in that it exhibits the kind of hubris of which only Leica is capable. It's similar to luxury watches in the sense that those proudly exhibiting one are asking to be mocked behind their backs. It's the kind of camera that the Emperor Has No Clothes was written for. The SL is basically a Nikon D600 wrapped in some nice metal with bazookas for lenses, which somehow manage to be both gigantic and variable aperture. But don't worry, they announced that a 35mm f2 will be announced at the NEXT Photokina. Have fun with your luxury D600. :bang:

Wow.

10 characters, but, again, wow.

 

[SaveKodak]

Only people who've spent a stupid amount of money on something say that they shouldn't be mocked for spending a stupid amount of money.

I have used the SL first at Photoexpo during launch, where Leica informed me that the SL would not be able to fire the central shutter in leaf lenses (doh!). Then I've used it casually a handful of other times. Just because something is made of metal doesn't mean that everything inside isn't sub-par in every way.

 

[jsrockit]

This camera has just been made obsolete by the X1D and GFX. Both of which have more lenses upon release than this system after a year.

How would the X1D and GFX be more useful to people who want to use Leica R and M lenses (like Cal and Godfrey)?

 

[jsrockit]

These kind of statements show you don't know what a fact is.

Because we all know that Nikon designed the SL right? The SL is just a redesigned D610?

 

[f16sunshine]

Only people who've spent a stupid amount of money on something say that they shouldn't be mocked for spending a stupid amount of money.

I have used the SL first at Photoexpo during launch, where Leica informed me that the SL would not be able to fire the central shutter in leaf lenses (doh!). Then I've used it casually a handful of other times. Just because something is made of metal doesn't mean that everything inside isn't sub-par in every way.

Keep it nice!
Your need to call people stupid has put you on notice.

 

[SaveKodak]

Because we all know that Nikon designed the SL right? The SL is just a redesigned D610?

Nah it looks like Sony did. Then Leica stole the idea, but said the Sony sensors were too good so they used a cheap one like they always do, and then bought some EVF tech from Epson.

 

[brennanphotoguy]

How would the X1D and GFX be more useful to people who want to use Leica R and M lenses (like Cal and Godfrey)?

Then you could use an A7RII and have a much better sensor and spend a lot less money. The M lenses balance a ton better on the smaller A7 bodies anyways. The X1D and GFX are the same price or cheaper than an SL with any of the SL lenses and someone who is buying into a new system would have to have a couple screws loose to try and justify an SL over either of the two new digital medium format options which offer much better.....everything. Don't start on the "well the SL has higher FPS," thing because we know that people aren't using the SL like a flagship CaNikon body.