MCTuomey
Veteran
I think Kirk Tuck's got it right. A helluva tool for some of the best small format lenses ever made. And sexy/cool to boot. Whew.
I don't need one, nor can I afford one, but I appreciate its possibilities.
I don't need one, nor can I afford one, but I appreciate its possibilities.
pluton
Well-known
Based on my experience focusing my EVF-equipped Fujifilm XE1 at wide open and at stopped down apertures on a range of Fuji and non-Fuji lenses, I would never, ever want to have to focus at the shooting stop unless it is f/4 or wider.
Not if I was in a hurry. And I'm almost always in a hurry...even with "landscapes." Judging focus at f/8 on an EVF makes focusing with a modern DSLR sceeen seem a breeze in comparison.
Except for the Leica SL EVF is a hell of a lot nicer than Fuji's offerings.
x-ray
Veteran
Leica may have shops in major cities but from my experience of 7 weeks per repair that's unacceptable for me. I'm still working full time as a professional photographer and in my experience of nearly fifty years nikon and Canon have superior service, support and reliability. Leica isn't even close.
willie_901
Veteran
Focusing techniques using electronic displays requires us to develop new techniques.This is not extremely difficult (especially if you understand how CDAF works). Critical focusing at wide apertures and changing to the appropriate narrow aperture is practical. Even the high resolution of the SL-601 can not overcome the unavoidable drop in EVF signal-to-noise ratio as sensor becomes underexposed (shutter time decreases and, or aperture narrows and ISO must be increased to achieve the appropriate brightness)
The hope would be the high-quality Leica EVF/LCD will make pure manual focusing (turning a mechanical lens collar) as useful as it is with high-quality reflex systems.
What Leica has done what SONY did and Nikon/Canon should have done. SONY never intended to optimize analog manual focusing. How much more would a SONY 24 X 36 mm body cost with hi-res EVF? How much bigger/heavier would it be to accommodate a larger EVF and perhaps a larger battery? What percentage of SONY's high-end buyers would even care? Nikon/Canon only provide crude, out of date tools for manual focusing. The SL-601 will not change any of this.
Erwin Puts points out Leica's overlap in product lines is interesting. Puts writes:
"The current Leica strategy is far removed from the clean upward mobility line of Canon, Nikon, Sony and Fuji. Leica is creating a range of cameras and camera systems that overlap each other and that are even in direct competition. Where the Japanese follow a strategy of evolutionary steps, Leica is clearly engaged in a learning process of catching up with the Joneses."
Before long there will two rather different ways to use M/LTM lenses. What is the motivation to use them on the SL-601? In the near future it's convenience. Later on it will be to spare the expense of buying SL-mount primes. Yet I have a difficult time imagining someone who can afford a M-240 would walk around or travel with compact M lenses on the SL-601 body. The SL-601 has no advantage for focusing and is less convenient (even if the initial response to its size and weight was an over reaction).
The SL-601 (with its current lens line up) seems destined for tripod use. Sadly it does not have an articulating LCD screen which means for studio use it has to be tethered or the photographer has to be seated or bend over constantly. Pros with clients who will pay rates that justify the cost of a SL-601 system probably use tethered systems most of the time anyway. Landscape and wildlife photographers typically carry tripods.
The hope would be the high-quality Leica EVF/LCD will make pure manual focusing (turning a mechanical lens collar) as useful as it is with high-quality reflex systems.
What Leica has done what SONY did and Nikon/Canon should have done. SONY never intended to optimize analog manual focusing. How much more would a SONY 24 X 36 mm body cost with hi-res EVF? How much bigger/heavier would it be to accommodate a larger EVF and perhaps a larger battery? What percentage of SONY's high-end buyers would even care? Nikon/Canon only provide crude, out of date tools for manual focusing. The SL-601 will not change any of this.
Erwin Puts points out Leica's overlap in product lines is interesting. Puts writes:
"The current Leica strategy is far removed from the clean upward mobility line of Canon, Nikon, Sony and Fuji. Leica is creating a range of cameras and camera systems that overlap each other and that are even in direct competition. Where the Japanese follow a strategy of evolutionary steps, Leica is clearly engaged in a learning process of catching up with the Joneses."
Before long there will two rather different ways to use M/LTM lenses. What is the motivation to use them on the SL-601? In the near future it's convenience. Later on it will be to spare the expense of buying SL-mount primes. Yet I have a difficult time imagining someone who can afford a M-240 would walk around or travel with compact M lenses on the SL-601 body. The SL-601 has no advantage for focusing and is less convenient (even if the initial response to its size and weight was an over reaction).
The SL-601 (with its current lens line up) seems destined for tripod use. Sadly it does not have an articulating LCD screen which means for studio use it has to be tethered or the photographer has to be seated or bend over constantly. Pros with clients who will pay rates that justify the cost of a SL-601 system probably use tethered systems most of the time anyway. Landscape and wildlife photographers typically carry tripods.
x-ray
Veteran
The problem with MF lenses is not how bright it is in the VF but the increased DOF reducing the accuracy of focus. Wide open a f1.4 lens snaps in and out of focus quickly but stop it down to f8 or 11 and it no longer snaps in and out of focus. It's actually quite difficult to see where critical focus is at the point you want to focus on.
Opening to maximum aperture and then Stopping down to working aperture and decomposing just isnt practical in many situations. This technique might be ok for vacation pictures but I can't think of many situations where it would work for me other than product photography where the subject is stationary and the camera is on a tripod.
Opening to maximum aperture and then Stopping down to working aperture and decomposing just isnt practical in many situations. This technique might be ok for vacation pictures but I can't think of many situations where it would work for me other than product photography where the subject is stationary and the camera is on a tripod.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Interesting line of thoughts, willie. Since I have and have been using both the M-P and the Leicaflex SL, what I find is that the M-P excels with 35, 50, and 75 mm lenses. Others outside that range work but are more work focusing and framing than carrying the 'Flex with 19, 24, 90, 135, et al. The M-P and 'Flex SL bodies are very close to the same size and weight, just as the 'Flex SL and new SL are very close in size and weight. I find them equally portable and hand holdable, with the versatility nod going to the 'Flex SL for longer lenses still. The M-P's lower vibration nets better results in poor light.
So I'll report back how it works out when I replace the 'Flex SL with the new SL body, but my gut feeling is that it will give me the best of both worlds in one body. Note that I'm not buying the SL 24-90 zoom: I'm not much of a zoom lens user and figure that if I buy any zoom I'll wait for the SL 90-280 or others to come available. Then it makes sense ... One big howitzer to carry rather than two or three.
G
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Actually, because of the different dynamics of an EVF vs a reflex OVF (constant brightness independent of f/stop setting in the EVF), it's much easier than it seems it would be. I used my R lenses on the Sony A7 for a year and a half, never had any difficulty nailing accurate focus quickly with 24, 50, 90, 135, etc, lenses even stopped down to f/5.6-f/8 in decent light. And then the other focusing assists helped out if I did.
By and large, moving back to a manual focus SLR has proven more difficult than moving to a manual focus EVF, even one without aperture control.
G
uhoh7
Veteran
I like Mings preview:
http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/10/21/premiere-review-2015-leica-sl-601/
He puts the camera in context with the other alternatives.
Kristian Dowling, who like Jono, is working with Leica, had a good preview:
http://kristiandowling.com/blog/2015/10/20/the-leica-sl-type-601-professional-mirrorless-camera
Jono is also excellent:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-news/2015/10/leica-sl-test-jono/
What it took me a little while to realize is the bridge factor between the S system, which is now arguably the best DSLR sized option money can buy (with limits, e.g. sports and wildlife) and of course M. It appears the S adapter, which will support AF, is late, and will not appear till middle of next year.
R and Nikon updaters are available now.
The T mount is better than the E mount, because it's 50mm vs 46mm (torque) and should show less reflection and shading issues.
Meanwhile problematic issues of the Sony A7 system have been recently revealed in tests at Lensrentals:
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2015/10/sony-e-mount-lens-sharpness-bench-tests
Sony lenses are very hard to test on the optical bench, but these infinity issues have been resolved and results reveal huge copy variation in the native Zeiss lenses, and the need for 2mm of optical glass in the path to produce the best results (this may point to the coverglass issues)
So, while the Leica is bigger and much more money, it's the best legacy body for film lenses ever made by anyone. Pending additional adapters, but these are dumb and easy to make. We will see more, I think.
The Leica SL is headed to classic status, and one wishes Zeiss was paying attention. A Zeiss mirrorless FF, with good build and interface, friendly sensor and a price tag in the lower atmosphere would sell easily, I think. But maybe they already signed a non-compete clause with Sony
http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/10/21/premiere-review-2015-leica-sl-601/
He puts the camera in context with the other alternatives.
Kristian Dowling, who like Jono, is working with Leica, had a good preview:
http://kristiandowling.com/blog/2015/10/20/the-leica-sl-type-601-professional-mirrorless-camera
Jono is also excellent:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-news/2015/10/leica-sl-test-jono/
What it took me a little while to realize is the bridge factor between the S system, which is now arguably the best DSLR sized option money can buy (with limits, e.g. sports and wildlife) and of course M. It appears the S adapter, which will support AF, is late, and will not appear till middle of next year.
R and Nikon updaters are available now.
The T mount is better than the E mount, because it's 50mm vs 46mm (torque) and should show less reflection and shading issues.
Meanwhile problematic issues of the Sony A7 system have been recently revealed in tests at Lensrentals:
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2015/10/sony-e-mount-lens-sharpness-bench-tests
Sony lenses are very hard to test on the optical bench, but these infinity issues have been resolved and results reveal huge copy variation in the native Zeiss lenses, and the need for 2mm of optical glass in the path to produce the best results (this may point to the coverglass issues)
So, while the Leica is bigger and much more money, it's the best legacy body for film lenses ever made by anyone. Pending additional adapters, but these are dumb and easy to make. We will see more, I think.
The Leica SL is headed to classic status, and one wishes Zeiss was paying attention. A Zeiss mirrorless FF, with good build and interface, friendly sensor and a price tag in the lower atmosphere would sell easily, I think. But maybe they already signed a non-compete clause with Sony
leicapixie
Well-known
I wish Leica all the best with the SL.
I see a number of products from Leica,
that are competitive with each other!
I see from a number of replies and sources,
how wonderful the original SL SLR was..
Not from my experiences and some friends.
A camera that once Leica no longer supported,
almost no repairer, wanted to touch. Mmm.
True one SL fell like 7 miles from the sky,
and sort of survived.
Nikon was the camera.
The Nikon-F simply wiped out the German Photographic industry.
Leica survived, but like many of my old cameras, the walking wounded.
I use a Leica M and love it.
But when the chips were down, covering "civil disturbance",
it was Nikon-F or my older Pentax gear..
Nikon and Canon have a very strong Pro support.
Leica has not.
In truth it matters little, as within 18 months or sooner,
Leica will have a new model.
Everybody else will have it maybe sooner..
It's the nature of photography today.
I see a number of products from Leica,
that are competitive with each other!
I see from a number of replies and sources,
how wonderful the original SL SLR was..
Not from my experiences and some friends.
A camera that once Leica no longer supported,
almost no repairer, wanted to touch. Mmm.
True one SL fell like 7 miles from the sky,
and sort of survived.
Nikon was the camera.
The Nikon-F simply wiped out the German Photographic industry.
Leica survived, but like many of my old cameras, the walking wounded.
I use a Leica M and love it.
But when the chips were down, covering "civil disturbance",
it was Nikon-F or my older Pentax gear..
Nikon and Canon have a very strong Pro support.
Leica has not.
In truth it matters little, as within 18 months or sooner,
Leica will have a new model.
Everybody else will have it maybe sooner..
It's the nature of photography today.