Leica vs Bessa

[5nap5hot]

Lllllllett's get readyyyy to Rummmmmmbllllllllllle! 😛

In the Blue corner: The Voitlander R3M... weighing in at $599
In Red(dot) corner: The Leica M4 .... weighing in at approx $1200


I am mostly interested in Street Photography and am looking for a great camera body. I am going to use the CV Nokton 40/1.4 SC.

A) Is the M4 twice the camera that the R3M is?
B) How much different(louder/quieter) is the shutter noise between the 2?
C) Which has the brighter viewfinder? (I like to do night/low light stuff)
D) If you were me, an intermediate but serious photographer with street tendencies, which would you choose? And why?

I appreciate any help you can offer. Thanks

 

[markinlondon]

A) Well they've been around a lot longer
B) The Leica is quieter than the Bessa. The Bessa has a vertically-running metal shutter and can't help but be louder.
C) I'd guess the Bessa, but there's not a lot in it.
D) I'd choose the M4 but then I'm a sentimental sort.

Other thoughts
The Bessa has a meter. This may be important to you.
Think of all the film you can buy with $600.

 

[telenous]

If you buy the M4 and sell it in a year you will get back about what you paid for it. If you buy the Bessa and sell it in a year you will get about half.

I am sentimental (with my cash) too. 😀 😀 😀

 

[iñaki]

Is it the meter important for you?(it´s important for me)
For 1200$ (or a little less, about 1000 or 1100$) I have seen a lot of Leica M6 here in RFF. I would choose a M6 or the new Zeis Ikon.

 

[Flyfisher Tom]

A) Is the M4 twice the camera that the R3M is?
B) How much different(louder/quieter) is the shutter noise between the 2?
C) Which has the brighter viewfinder? (I like to do night/low light stuff)
D) If you were me, an intermediate but serious photographer with street tendencies, which would you choose? And why?

I appreciate any help you can offer. Thanks

Take everything you hear with a grain of salt, it is all subjective 🙂

A) in build quality, yes, in function, no
B) bessas will have a slightly louder shutter noise
C) toss up, both have very good VFs
D) if you have the money, go M4, if not go R3M ... with the M4 choice, you will never experience the old Leica what if self-doubt routine

In the end, both cameras will serve your purposes admirably. Go with what you can afford.

cheers

 

[FrankS]

Neither. For $200 less than your M4, you can get an M6 with built in meter, or spend about $750 for an M 2 or 3, or M4-2/P.

The only way you can decide if Bessa or Leica is better for YOU, is to handle, better yet use, both cameras. If you can perceive the difference in feel of a Leica, then unfortunately, you should buy the Leica. If you can't feel a difference, then consider yourself lucky. There will be no difference in your photography, unless you like to focus moderate and tele lenses really close and wide open. Then the Leica's longer RF base length will come into play. The difference in shutter noise is more than jsut slight, IMO, and I use both tpes of cameras.

 

[x-ray]

I haven't even handled the bessa but do have alot of experience with M's. The one thing about the older M is the fact that they are older. The M4 dates to the late 60's and some are approaching 40 years old. I used M4's in the early to late 70's and find them great just as my other M's. Keep in mind that a camera of any kind that's 40 years old will soon need service. If you plan to keep it a while you might need CLA and possibly in time the RF prisms will start to fade like the LTM's and M2's and 3's. A new camera has a warranty and should be trouble free for many years.

Having said that I think the M4 is a better made camera then the M6 as some have suggested that camera but the meter in the M6 is nice and once having M's with meters it's tough to go back to one without. It all depends on the kind of shooting you do. Even though I say the M4 is better made, both cameras will out live both of us.

If you can, handle both and see which fits your style. Both will make stunning pictures in the right hands.

 

[Photog9001]

a) yes. ok, i don't have an m4, but an m3, and it's easily double the r3m
b) much quieter, and very different.
c) both are very capable in low light situations
d) m4... well, i'm not you of course, and this is something i've found out for myself. and i'm a sucker for mechanical quality btw. some will probably advice you otherwise because of the framelines of the r3m, but imo they're practically useless. and i don't wear glasses.

i have one leica, have had two bessas. they're two different worlds, but both are capable of making plenty fine images.

in fact, the only "advice" i can give is, don't waste much time choosing. get one of it, that way you can start shooting (well, if you aren't already). the "think of all the film you could buy for $600" was quite the argument btw... but now i'm contradicting myself, sort of..

best of luck
th

 

[Oh Two]

Well, I am the original owner of my early M4. It has required service twice. If I had had the job done by someone with more experienced it would have required service only once. The camera is 38 years old. Go figure. My first M Leica was an M2R (now worth a bloody fortune) but I had to have the latest.....

I considered buying a new Bessa because I like to shoot with two cameras and I have plenty of lenses to go around. I fondled one and it was too different after the 38 years.

The only issue is the lightmeter, but as others have mentioned taking a reading is usally good for the next half dozen shots or so and spending more time on setting up the shot is far more important. Be happy with an M2, 3, 4, or 6. They all cost about the same. You won't lose any money in your investment. My M4 has trippled in value!!!!

If you get the Bessa you'll always be wondering if you did the right thing.

 

[35mmdelux]

allow me to save you some time: there is no comparsion between a Bessa of any stripe and a legendary Leica M4. Never was, never will be.

Put another way - In one corner a low production vintage Mercedes; In the other corner a blue Yugo. Its that different.

 

[Kyle]

Forget the M4, they seem to go for ridiculously high prices. If you want to spend $1200 on an M, go with an M6, at least then you get a meter. If you want a "classic" Leica, go with an M2 or M3. An M3 sold yesterday for $500 on here, and I had a CLA'd and beautiful M2 for sale for $775. They pop up all the time in the $600-800 range.

The Bessas are great cameras too.

 

[FrankS]

There are plenty of perfectly satisfied Bessa users. For many, a camera is just a light tight box which holds the film. The only way anyone can know if they would be satisfied with a Bessa or happier with a Leica, is for them to actually try them both out.

 

[iml]

Both will allow you to take good pictures. That's the only thing that really matters. If you want a Leica, buy one, but there's nothing wrong with a Bessa either.

Ian

 

[FrankS]

The only thing that matters is the photo.

I disagree with this. For me, the process is also enjoyable and important, and the ergonomics/interface of the camera and lens plays an important role.

 

[PlantedTao]

A good camera

A good camera

There are plenty of perfectly satisfied Bessa users. For many, a camera is just a light tight box which holds the film. The only way anyone can know if they would be satisfied with a Bessa or happier with a Leica, is for them to actually try them both out.

I'm one of them...I do (try) mostly streetphotography and I like the meter (accurate) and the durability.
For streetphotography the bessa r2 is more than capable and the shutter will not bother you once you have confidence.
The short baselength bothers me once in a while when I use the 50 Nokton wide open...but it works.

You go thru LOTS of film in streetphotography...(if you don't, I tip my hat to ya)...so I would go with the bessa and film.

Listen to Frank as well...try before you buy.

 

[iml]

For me, the process is also enjoyable and important, and the ergonomics/interface of the camera and lens plays an important role.

Of course, although it's secondary to taking pictures. Leicas are lovely things, but a Bessa is not a shoddy camera ergonomically either, and is capable of being very enjoyable to use. But ultimately if someone really wants a Leica, that's what they should buy.

Ian

 

[FrankS]

I agree completely.

 

[Toby]

If your serious about really using the camera remember a new bessa will have a guarantee, if you're unlucky enough to buy a lemon M4 it's all down to negotiation,that is if you can find a nice M4, brand new bessas come out of the factory every day. How you shoot is important if you plan to to do a lot of wide open/low light work you need the longer RF base of a leica. If you shoot outdoors somewhere like England where some days the light can go up and down like a whore's draws the the AE of a bessa R3a will be more valuble. Bear in mind you ultimately want at least a three lens system if you go down the voigtlander route your three lens system can be had for $1200. I'm not sure Leica even sell one new lens for $1200. To me flexability is worth more than an extra 5% of image quality, but others would really have one really good lens. If your new to RF a bessa will give you an insight to the leica experience without costing the earth, but then so will a canonet or an Oly 35RC and they cost under $100.

Plus let's not forget the R3 has 40 framelines the m series does not.

 

[5nap5hot]

Thank you all for your input. I will take a closer look at the Leica M6.

 

[drewbarb]

The lens is far more important to the outcome of the pictures, so spend there first. Then spend on good film and good lab technique (or service). The camera body is about ergonomics, desired features, pride of ownership (or not) and a bunch of other things that ultimately have very little to do with the look of the pictures. The difference in dollars/Euro should count directly toward function first- durability, ergonomics, etc. In this, the Leica is a better bet, but at twice the price, it should be. Simply counted as a picture taker, the Voigtlander is excellent. The M4 and R3A have very different finders- play with a few to decide your favorite magnification and frameline set before you buy. M3 vs. M2 or later; different framelines in old vs. new Leicas; .72 vs. .58 vs. .85 vs. .91 mag finders; R3A/M vs. R2A/M- all this is not insignificant either. Play with whtever you can get your hands on, and see for yourself what feels right- the money you need to spend will make itself known. Good luck.