Leica X1 - Why bother?

[Kevin]

Because my recent correspondence with Leica Service in Solms has been less than satisfying I am going public with this discussion.

I am slightly suspicious of this new X1 camera.

Considering the fact that Leica has been deceiving us for years about the real cause of the now legendary E02 shutter error and the fact that the repairs Solms makes on broken Minilux and CM cameras are documented hacks, I am at a loss to understand why I or anyone eöse should trust that a new compact leica camera with a telescoping lens won't suffer the same pathetic fate.

On this page you can see how a diligent chinese repairman identifies the weak spot of the lens cable, which eventually cracks after turning the camera on and off many times. Once it cracks you get the E02 failure and your camera becomes a $1000 paperweight.

So, Leica, what have you done to permanently fix this design problem??

 

[Paul T.]

If the cable cracks, does that fry the electrics? And what is the info on the "documented hacks"?

If you're a defunct-Minilux owner I can understand your disenchantment, but is there any info on what proportion have failed and any more information to back up your allegations that this is a fatally-flawed product?

And do you know for sure that the X1 features a similar design?

 

[__hh]

Guilty until proven innocent!

 

[pvdhaar]

For some, the quality of the Minilux lens (the 40/2.4) outweighs the cost of ownership including repair..

Never encountered the EO2 error myself by the way. Perhaps because when I used the Minilux, I wasn't switching it on and off all the time..

 

[ruby.monkey]

So how likely is it, do you think, that Leica will take a known fault from an old design and incorporate it into their newest offering?

 

[bwcolor]

I trust Japanese camera engineers to adopt current standards for modern camera design. Now, if it turns out that the camera was designed/assembled in China I will want a 75% discount on the price and a five year warranty.

 

[Michiel Fokkema]

So how likely is it, do you think, that Leica will take a known fault from an old design and incorporate it into their newest offering?

Well, if they transferred the fault from the Minilux to the CM, why not a third time to the X1?

Cheers,
Michiel Fokkema

 

[Rob-F]

Considering the fact that Leica has been deceiving us for years about the real cause of the now legendary E02 shutter error and the fact that the repairs Solms makes on broken Minilux and CM cameras are documented hacks . . .

Kevin, can you supply the documentation? I haven't seen it.

 

[MarkoM8]

http://translate.google.com/transla...s-resultados.html&sl=es&tl=en&history_state0=

 

[CK Dexter Haven]

I haven't seen any reports of an E02 failure with a CM. Only the minilux.

 

[BillBingham2]

Why, because it's Leica from the base plate up.

The X-1 is not a rebadged anything. It's style is unlike almost anything else out there. Leica learns from the past. The M9 is a quantum leap beyond the M8, the MP beyond the M6. The folks at Sloms have been learning the hard way the pain of keeping up other people’s design.

If I had the cash I would plunk my Benjamins on one if she really holds to be as good as I hope. Saddly, no cash for such a potentially wonderful little camera. It reminds me of my fathers IIIa. A wonderful little camera.

B2 (;->

 

[ruby.monkey]

Well, if they transferred the fault from the Minilux to the CM, why not a third time to the X1?

Cheers,
Michiel Fokkema

Did they? And even if they did, do you believe they haven't solved the problem over the last six years or so?

 

[Avotius]

I dont think this is going to be in the X1 if not just because the lens and all the stuff required for this cameras system would be different then what went into the minilux. If it was so easy as stuffing some new electronic guts behind the lens of preexisting cameras then we would be knee deep in Ricoh d-gr1v's and Contax d-t3's etc etc etc

I want to say most likely there will be a different new issue Leica didnt see coming, but I want Leica to succeed in the future so im hoping they sell hordes of this camera, and if one day I can afford it I will get one for my girl friend, and an M9 for me 😀

 

[Frankie]

In my industry, we say the Germans are good lens grinders and metal bangers. For electronics, best is to leave it to the Japanese.

The Chinese manufacturing industry is founded on cheap labour...human robots... Little innovations can be expected for another generation or two.

As was often said in the bankrupt USSR: "you pretend to pay, we pretend to work..." who cares if the product is defective. A 5 year warranty means nothing...shipping cost renders it meaningless.

1/3 or 1/5 the price means nothing either...you get what you pay for.

I have never trusted telescopic lenses now found on most digicam. That on/off lens extending/retracting action is problem prone...but you must use it before you can even view a scene.

[A periscoped lens some manufacturers adopt is a far better solution.]

Why invite a problem when you don't have one? :bang:

The Leica X1 would have been interesting if a fixed 40mm lens is used...an M-mount lens would have been even better. However, Leica will never allow the X to compete with the M. The X is really just a hook to catch future M-worshippers.

As I wrote before, "Leica is a religion...believers often preach."

 

[bwcolor]

Anyone here believe that Leica manufactures this camera vs. assembles parts made in Asia?

 

[Frankie]

Anyone here believe that Leica manufactures this camera vs. assembles parts made in Asia?

Unlike Switzerland where the term "Swiss" or "Swiss Made" may not be legally used on a watch unless a certain minimum amounts of parts and/or assembly time is sourced from Switzerland. I am not aware "Made in Germany" carries similar requirements.

There is no telling where the Germans sourced their parts or sub-assemblies. It was a known fact that much of Leica's sub-assemblies was manufactured in Portugal, and some of their past products was modified-Japanese.

 

[Ronald M]

Made in Germany does have standards.

That aside, a lens that runs in/out all the time is asking for trouble. My first digi was a Canon and I would turn it on which extended the lens, then kept it in the dark bag except for actual pic, until the outing was over. The dark bag keeps the meter from consuming current and preserves the battery charge.

 

[sojournerphoto]

I want to say most likely there will be a different new issue Leica didnt see coming, but I want Leica to succeed in the future so im hoping they sell hordes of this camera, and if one day I can afford it I will get one for my girl friend, and an M9 for me 😀

Replace girlfriend with wife and I'm totally in agreement - if I an afford it one day

Mike

 

[Kevin]

Kevin, can you supply the documentation? I haven't seen it.

I mean documented hacks by chinese repairmen who are taking the time to deal with these electronic cams. Some of the other camera repair specialists in Shanghai whom I have contacted talk of cut and soldered comm cables of Solms-repaired Miniluxes. Pictures are on the internet but mostly there where I have been looking, on chinese websites.

Basically the data cable bends when the lens extends and retracts, and after it cracks Solms simply cuts it and solders it back on again. But apparently different cameras show different types of repairs, so this is not always true (as far as I understand the texts).

Actually fixing the design flaw is not part of the Leica repair, however. In some cases a simple flexible wire had been inserted to relieve pressure at the place where the bend occurs. That's why the error could easily happen again even after an expensive Solms E02 repair job.

I'll have to do some more research when I find some free time, but now 2 of my 4 miniluxes have the E02 error and only recently have I found out about the hack, while researching chinese websites, looking for a suitable repairman.

Anyways, I hope that whoever reviews this new compact camera does a proper stress-test to make sure the X1 does not have a similar design problem. A machine that turns it on and off 30000 times would be sufficient I guess.

 

[Rob-F]

My two laptop computers, one a Sony and the other Compaq, have developed flexing wire problems from opening and shutting the top. Now I have to use a separate flat-screen plugged in to the computer. Funny they don't use a higher quality wire with fine woven multi-strands, made to withstand flexing and work-hardening over a greater number of cycles. Funny Leica didn't (apparently) and that laptop makers apparently don't always bother either.

Which brings us to the Epson R-D1. What about that flip-around LCD panel? I don't believe I've seen any reports of it going bad. Possibly Epson did use wire designed for the job. Or is trouble on the horizon . . .