Leicaphile ?

[John Henry]

Actually, whatever adds to the discussion, so long as that discussion remans civil, is what these photo forums are about. The best thing about RFF is it's diversity: there is room [and tolerance] for a wide range of opinions about variety of cameras. I sometimes get a bit annoyed with the Leica Forum simply because it can seem so inbred. Still, there is plenty of good stuff to be learned there.

 

[Jocko]

I am on no other "side" in this idiotic brand controverses than on my own side, which is the side of those who use whatever is technically sufficient and aesthetically adaequate for the photographical purpose and the intended result and which has a reasonable price-performance ratio.

Bertram, we are on exactly the same side - as I hope the rest of my post made clear.

Yet I can understand why a particular brand inspires passionate loyalty. I became involved in photography through the study of Soviet history and art. Encountering extraordinary photographs from the 1920s, 30s and 40s I began to wonder about the photographers, their cameras and the technique behind their images. Spurred by that initial interest, photography became a major part of my life.

I know that my preference for FED cameras is an irrational product of those wider associations. A photographer of my limited ability would be better off using some pastel-coloured digital box. Yet I would far rather face demands and limitations and use a piece of history whose heritage is a continual challenge and inspiration. The FED enriches my experience of photography.

I imagine the same goes for many Leica owners. But of course, to think a particular camera makes one a great photographer - or that owning anything at all makes one a splendid fellow - is the badge of an idiot. We should be grateful they wear it so proudly - it makes spotting them easier!

Regards, Ian

 

[Bertram2]

Actually, whatever adds to the discussion, so long as that discussion remans civil, is what these photo forums are about. .

Agreed. And these x vs y or x = best BS does NOT contribute to the discussion.
And it cannot stay civilized too, because it is agressive by nature. It's always only about who's got the better one, the best one and who is right and who is wrong.
It ust proves the immature character of those who start that crap again and again with silly remarks and comments. Normally it should be in the forum rules that this is forbidden as offensive behaviour in general.

bertram

 

[clarence]

Agreed. And these x vs y or x = best BS does NOT contribute to the discussion.
And it cannot stay civilized too, because it is agressive by nature. It's always only about who's got the better one, the best one and who is right and who is wrong.
It ust proves the immature character of those who start that crap again and again with silly remarks and comments. Normally it should be in the forum rules that this is forbidden as offensive behaviour in general.

bertram

I'm not quite confident about 'rules'. The major benefit of having free speech is that whatever opposing views are aired will be exposed to the judgement of everyone. If we are all mature adults, we should be able to keep things civil, and in the process, learn a bit more about each other's views.

To give an example: I've never really believed in a Leitz 'footprint', but I'm not willing to enter a debate about that because I don't know enough about photography to contribute to such a discussion. On the other hand, watching a lively debate about the existence of a Leitz footprint would enrich my understanding of photography immensely, as long as it does not descend to fisticuffs.

I also want to see not just technical comparisons but comparisons of all the ineluctables, the inexpressible things that photographers and camera collectors feel passionate about, things that I may never see or know or experience myself. We contribute to this forum because we are passionate people, and there's no reason why a bit of friendly tussling over brand loyalties shouldn't happen.

My point is that Rules are authoritarian and imposed. Those of us who are genuinely interested in maintaining a sense of community in this forum will naturally be 'civilised' and treat each other with the same respect that we give to our own cameras. In an ideal world, there would be no need for moderators, but in the meantime, we should strive towards encouraging a sense of civic responsibility rather than resorting to censorship.

Clarence

 

[Bertram2]

I'm not quite confident about 'rules'.
and there's no reason why a bit of friendly tussling over brand loyalties shouldn't happen.
Clarence

Clarence,
actually we do not need any new rules, the less we have the better we will live here. The existing rules cover this kinda stirring up unfriendly emotions anyway . "Normally" was an unlucky choice of word, I simply wanted to point out the agressive character of such "contributions".

And "friendly tussling over brand loyalties", let me add "among gentlemen", this was not what I was talking about, and this is surely not the old bad problem in all photo forums.

And in particular it has nothing to do with the attitude of that certain Wetzlar crowd i was talking about , this attitude which contains too often also an element of status ("sour grapes"). And at this point at the latest ends unavoidably all friendly brand tusseling. Because then it's getting really personal.

bertram

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

I don't even know where to begin. Bertram, je voudrait que plus pourraient discuter comme toi. I outgrew these "my team can pee farther than yours" arguments long ago.

 

[Bertram2]

I outgrew these "my team can pee farther than yours" arguments long ago.

At least this would be a honest contest ! But it could reveal embarrasing details too and so I do not expect that pee contests will replace the "x is best" wars ever ! 😀

Thank god the very most people here have outgrown these arguments, that shall not be overseen and so we have rather an unpleasant phenomenon than a true problem for the community. .

Regards,
Bertram

 

[JimG]

Thank you for sharing your viewpoint Berttram. I have enjoyed reading and considering your position. Jim

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Bertram: nothing intended by my remark.

As you state, the Leica brand -more than any other- seems to have more zealots and more naysayers than the others. We just have Nikon Kiu to counter with.

 

[Nikon Bob]

I am sure that brand zealots and brand haters both have a special corner in hell.

Nikon Bob

 

[FrankS]

I am sure that brand zealots and brand haters both have a special corner in hell.
Nikon Bob

Yes, absolutely.

And it's the same corner so they have to be with each other.