wilonstott
Wil O.
I do a fair amount of traveling abroad (subsequently, I reside in the US), and I've never taken my M2 with me, as it is a rather recent acquisition. What are your experiences with street thieves and Leicas? Are they even aware of them? Are thieves more likely to go after the loud, bulky, brightly lit Nikon D60? I think we will all readily admit that our collective interest in Leica Ms is a niche. I know that before becoming enamored with Ms, I would have been hard pressed to distinguish my M2 from other old cameras from the 1950s and 1960s--let alone the wide price difference between it and, say, a Yashica Electro.
I realize that not being the victim of pickpockets has as much to do with awareness as anything, and that the ease of the theft often overrides the relative value of the articles that are stolen. This is why grandma gets pocketed in Rome or Barcelona--she's an easy mark (Romans and Spainards, I mean no offense, but I've observed numerous lifts and scams in both cities).
Thus, to distill my question, do Leicas peek thieves' interest, or do they fly under the radar? Any experience with this would be helpful. Also, if the content of your misspent youth involved pickpocketing (no judgement here), I'd like to know your thoughts.
I realize that not being the victim of pickpockets has as much to do with awareness as anything, and that the ease of the theft often overrides the relative value of the articles that are stolen. This is why grandma gets pocketed in Rome or Barcelona--she's an easy mark (Romans and Spainards, I mean no offense, but I've observed numerous lifts and scams in both cities).
Thus, to distill my question, do Leicas peek thieves' interest, or do they fly under the radar? Any experience with this would be helpful. Also, if the content of your misspent youth involved pickpocketing (no judgement here), I'd like to know your thoughts.
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I don't see a thief looking at the brand, they are going to look for whatever they can get their hands on the easiest. I would venture that a small nondescript M2 would attract less attention that one of the big modern DSLRs.
dfoo
Well-known
A thief is more likely to go after your wallet than any camera.
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
This does not make sense.
John Lawrence
Well-known
A pro-photographer friend of mine reckons that these days (both in the UK and overseas) most thieves want digital cameras that they can sell on quickly at the pub (or equivalent overseas). He's done a fair bit of travelling in the last few years and said he was surprised how many people he photographed in Third World countries were disappointed that they couldn't see themselves on the back of his M6 and asked why he had a poor persons camera?
hans voralberg
Veteran
What he meant is that he is American and go home to America after travelling, I think.
I have dragged my M3, M6, IIIf in many dubious and downright creepy places all over the world without losing anything yet, so yeah, dont think thieves target Leica. Where I live they prefer big hulky DSLR
I have dragged my M3, M6, IIIf in many dubious and downright creepy places all over the world without losing anything yet, so yeah, dont think thieves target Leica. Where I live they prefer big hulky DSLR
wilonstott
Wil O.
"abroad" has a different meaning depending on your country of origin. Because I reside in the US, "abroad" means everywhere other than the US. Thus, if I was Canadian--traveling in the US would be considered "abroad." My aim with that inclusion was clarity, and I don't understand your confusion over my wording.
craygc
Well-known
I travel a lot and set up my equipment to minimise unwanted access. I learn to continually flick my hand over certain part, pockets, etc so in the end its just second nature. However, Ive had my phone stolen out of my pocket while photographing in Tienanmen Square during Chinese National Day (over a million people in the square and was picked by the Xinjiang gangs) buy never had a problem with my gear
Tienanmen Square, Beijing - Chinese National Day 2004 - less my phone
Tienanmen Square, Beijing - Chinese National Day 2004 - less my phone
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MichaelW
Established
Thieves will steal anything. They'll worry about what it's worth later.
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Thieves are not photographers. They'll steal anything that seems resellable. A camera will do, and to that effect, a camera is a camera, whether film or digital.
I have traveled extensively in Europe, always surrounded by digi-wielding people (both P&S and dSLRs). Never have I experienced or seen anyone having problems of the kind you say. In Costa Rica and Colombia I found myself fairly safe too. Hence, don't fret about things that haven't happened. Just carry your gear with naturality, don't put it where you cannot see it, keep it under grip at all times (say, sit at a restaurant table and tie the strap on the chair, or loop it around a chair leg if you have to, or sit on the strap).
Of course, you want to act like you know the place. That'll draw no attention to you.
Are you going somewhere or is this a general curiosity question? Because cameras also get stolen in the good ole US of A.
I have traveled extensively in Europe, always surrounded by digi-wielding people (both P&S and dSLRs). Never have I experienced or seen anyone having problems of the kind you say. In Costa Rica and Colombia I found myself fairly safe too. Hence, don't fret about things that haven't happened. Just carry your gear with naturality, don't put it where you cannot see it, keep it under grip at all times (say, sit at a restaurant table and tie the strap on the chair, or loop it around a chair leg if you have to, or sit on the strap).
Of course, you want to act like you know the place. That'll draw no attention to you.
Are you going somewhere or is this a general curiosity question? Because cameras also get stolen in the good ole US of A.
furcafe
Veteran
I'm guessing the confusion was w/your use of "subsequently." Perhaps, "now" or "currently" would have been better choices for clarity.
To answer your question, I have taken my Leicas overseas & never had anyone pay them any special attention other than fellow camera nerds & Leicaphiles. That said, per SolaresLarrave's & MichaelW's posts, thieves of all stripes will go after anything that they can sell & a Leica is still recognizably a camera. It may be relatively "worthless" & much less attractive compared to a point & shoot, cellphone, or dSLR, like any other chrome film camera (think a Pentax K-1000--yes I've had several people ask me whether 1 of my Leica M's was a K-1000), but it's still worth something. No extraordinary security measures are necessary, just common sense.
To answer your question, I have taken my Leicas overseas & never had anyone pay them any special attention other than fellow camera nerds & Leicaphiles. That said, per SolaresLarrave's & MichaelW's posts, thieves of all stripes will go after anything that they can sell & a Leica is still recognizably a camera. It may be relatively "worthless" & much less attractive compared to a point & shoot, cellphone, or dSLR, like any other chrome film camera (think a Pentax K-1000--yes I've had several people ask me whether 1 of my Leica M's was a K-1000), but it's still worth something. No extraordinary security measures are necessary, just common sense.
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tmfabian
I met a man once...
You beat me too it.
I've caught thieves, albeit bad ones, attempting to sift through my bag while I was walking down the street here in boston.
In general I don't use shoulder/messenger bags because they don't agree with my back, but I do recommend using them over backpacks due to the fact that anything on your back is out of your line of sight...and on subways or like in my case even walking down the street out of sight is something people will go after.
As far as thieves going after other cameras instead of a leica...thieves are dumb, they'll take anything that presents an easy nab. Even if they only sell it for a few bucks...they didn't pay anything for it so it's all profit to them.
I've caught thieves, albeit bad ones, attempting to sift through my bag while I was walking down the street here in boston.
In general I don't use shoulder/messenger bags because they don't agree with my back, but I do recommend using them over backpacks due to the fact that anything on your back is out of your line of sight...and on subways or like in my case even walking down the street out of sight is something people will go after.
As far as thieves going after other cameras instead of a leica...thieves are dumb, they'll take anything that presents an easy nab. Even if they only sell it for a few bucks...they didn't pay anything for it so it's all profit to them.
ferider
Veteran
I had a camera stolen from my shoulder in San Diego. An Olympus PEN F. Doesn't matter where you are, and what camera it is. When you are worried keep it around your neck, or bandolero style. I've seen a motorcyclist rob a woman of her purse - of the shoulder, on a side-walk.
In a crowd, anywhere, keep the camera around your neck or wear it Bandolero style. If you or your SO wears a bag, keep it in between you and her.
Best,
Roland.
In a crowd, anywhere, keep the camera around your neck or wear it Bandolero style. If you or your SO wears a bag, keep it in between you and her.
Best,
Roland.
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Al Kaplan
Veteran
The only time I've ever had a camera stolen was one time when somebody broke into my house. I've never been in a situation while I was out shooting that it became a concern, and I've done plenty of shooting in "the wrong part of town". I don't leave my bag or cameras unattended, and I have a habit of initiating conversations with complete strangers. Leaving your stuff sitting out of your sight is dumb. Acting furtively, unsure of yourself, and scared is inviting problems.
uhligfd
Well-known
The Lowepro Orion bags have their zippers towards your body, so an outsider has complications to access them. They are for the back/hip and swing up front easily.
Perfect for those fearing theft. ... And for those who want to carry gear anatomically right ... The Orion mini is great in size for rangefinder gear. I have been using it for 2 years with a Contax G2 and 4 lenses 16mm to 90mm, flash, 3 rolls of film, remote release, external finders, etc
Perfect for those fearing theft. ... And for those who want to carry gear anatomically right ... The Orion mini is great in size for rangefinder gear. I have been using it for 2 years with a Contax G2 and 4 lenses 16mm to 90mm, flash, 3 rolls of film, remote release, external finders, etc
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literiter
Well-known
Thieves are stupid, ignorant, or desperate, that is why they are thieves. They only know how to steal, not what to steal.
A friend of mine had soiled, cloth baby diapers stolen because she kept them in a shoulder bag.
A friend of mine had soiled, cloth baby diapers stolen because she kept them in a shoulder bag.
John Lawrence
Well-known
Further to my earlier post, I've lived in some of the most dangerous countries in the world where theft was endemic and I found that although there was some opportunist thieving, the thieves generally followed the rules of supply and demand. For example, they would steal high value cars such as BMWs, Lexus, Landcruisers etc. but leave the cheaper marques because no one wanted them. Maybe that's why no one ever stole my Lada!!
Thieves also want to be able to turn the goods around quickly without drawing attention to themselves. Try and sell a Leica film camera in a pub and everyone will remember you because it's different. Try this with a digital camera and I'd argue that you wouldn't draw so much attention to yourself and would have a (potentially) wider customer base.
Not all thieves are dumb either, I've met some pretty smart ones in the past!
Thieves also want to be able to turn the goods around quickly without drawing attention to themselves. Try and sell a Leica film camera in a pub and everyone will remember you because it's different. Try this with a digital camera and I'd argue that you wouldn't draw so much attention to yourself and would have a (potentially) wider customer base.
Not all thieves are dumb either, I've met some pretty smart ones in the past!
anoldsock
Established
While I was traveling abroad, I heard many stories of camera bags being stolen from right under their noses. A rather large (muscular) traveler I met was hanging out in Spain, took a seat on some steps and put the bag down by his side next to his feet. After looking around and surveying the scene he looked back down and found the bag gone. He had no idea who took it, or how it was stolen.
Another story, two ladies were having dinner in Rome, and they placed their purses and cameras on the table. A fight broke out, so they turned their heads to see what the commotion was all about. She turned back down to the table and her stuff had gone missing. Upon notifying the waiter, the waiter responded..."what did you expect, it's Rome". Turns two people will stage a confrontation and a fight, while everyone is distracted their accomplices will scan the tables for anything left on top of them.
My sister was on a train in Italy, and caught someone with a hand in her purse, while it was still strapped to her shoulder.
Moral of the story, just be aware at all times and be suspicious of any and all activity. You should be ok if you stick to that. And in most cases, if you catch them going through your stuff red handed, they'll just deny anything ever happened. You may think you'll want to bash their heads in, but it's your words against theirs. Sure it might make you feel better, but it also won't deter them from doing it to someone else because this is all they have, it's how they eat. And remember, you're at a disadvantage because you most likely don't understand the language and/or customs, and a night in jail in a foreign city is the last thing you want.
The fact of the matter is, pickpockets and theft is common among high traffic areas, especially tourist areas no matter where you are.
Another story, two ladies were having dinner in Rome, and they placed their purses and cameras on the table. A fight broke out, so they turned their heads to see what the commotion was all about. She turned back down to the table and her stuff had gone missing. Upon notifying the waiter, the waiter responded..."what did you expect, it's Rome". Turns two people will stage a confrontation and a fight, while everyone is distracted their accomplices will scan the tables for anything left on top of them.
My sister was on a train in Italy, and caught someone with a hand in her purse, while it was still strapped to her shoulder.
Moral of the story, just be aware at all times and be suspicious of any and all activity. You should be ok if you stick to that. And in most cases, if you catch them going through your stuff red handed, they'll just deny anything ever happened. You may think you'll want to bash their heads in, but it's your words against theirs. Sure it might make you feel better, but it also won't deter them from doing it to someone else because this is all they have, it's how they eat. And remember, you're at a disadvantage because you most likely don't understand the language and/or customs, and a night in jail in a foreign city is the last thing you want.
The fact of the matter is, pickpockets and theft is common among high traffic areas, especially tourist areas no matter where you are.
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Calzone
Gear Whore #1
I live in NYC and carry my three lens Leica Kit in a book bag almost every time I leave the house. A bookbag on the subway is very generic, but I wear mine like a bandelier with the pouch right in front of me.
Yesterday, on the subway I caught someone pushing into me. This is not unusual during rush hour on the number six train. It was kind of a reflex, as if fending off a pickpocket, but I was also defending my Leica. I moderately with purpose jabbed my pointed elbow into someone: I kinda elbowed a short woman in the breast unintentionally.
I must of hurt her because she started cursing me out in Spanish, which I understood. I started yelling back, "If you push someone, don't be surprised if they push you back." I'm sorry I hurt her, but I'd do it again.
In Costa Rica, I was getting on a bus, when someone bumped me. I ended up grabbing a pick pocket by the wrist while his hand was in my pocket. I spoke loudly and asked him in Spanish, "What is your hand doing in my pocket?" My right hand was balled into a fist. He became very passive.
Thieves will take big risk, so don't give them any opportunities. Also there is no time to think, so be prepared.
Cal
rogue_designer
Reciprocity Failure
Aye. Except for the really good ones who case their targets to pull large heists (not purse snatching).. or own financial corporations.