Leitz Canada Summicron 90mm f/2 - Why 'cheap'?

[Lilserenity]

Hiya,

The next lens that I want to get soon for my M2 (pending on a couple of windfalls I'm due) is a fast 90mm lens for gigs. Certainly f/2.8 is the bare minimum with f/2 and faster preferred, as then I will be able to shoot ISO 400 at most gigs and so forth

I have been looking at the market and noticed that some fairly good 'new looking' lenses (i.e. they're not the older 1950/60s chrome Leica lenses that seem to fall into my budget!) either in black or silver which are the 90mm Summicrons notably fro Canada.

I believe the latter bit could be why they generally seem cheaper. The prices I have seen these go for has been from £300-450 or so fairly consistently over time whether it's on eBay or various shops.

From what little I know, I understand it's not the sharpest 90mm wide open but still pretty damn good, what I have seen on the 'net seems to be pretty good to me (although no substitute for taking my own shots and printing them to judge the result) so I'm quite keen to establish why relatively considering Leica prices these seem actually quite good value! (A contentious way of putting it but some Leica stuff seems astronomical!)


Basically I was wondering if this is a good lens (I've not found masses on it but I don't know the exact search terms to use to pull out the details on this lens, there seems to be more than one generation!) -- build quality and so forth. And finally why is it cheap, or at least the examples I have seen (and they've all been in pretty good condition, no optical blemishes and slight signs of use, Exc+ to Exc++ condition)
​

I would also want to use the lens outside of low light in which case f/2.8 and f/4 would become pretty standard, so it doesn't have to be the sharpest ever 90mm M mount lens wide open,

Vicky

(Just to add, these were definitely M mount Summicrons, not R mount)

 

[FrankS]

This doesn't answer your question, but also consider the 85, 100, and 105mm RF lenses in ltm (need an M adaptor) by Nikon and Canon.

 

[35mmdelux]

Vicky, these are great lenses and kind in portraiture -- often found in the $700-800 (us) range. I would not hesitate to get one if you like this focal length. the f/2.0 is valuable in avail light shooting.

 

[35mmdelux]

BTW all of the 90mm are relative low price except for the 90mm ASPH. However, even the 90mm ASPH can be had for $1400 (US) which is not alot for this quailty of glass.

If one says the f/2.0 pre-asph is not sharp enough think again. A RFF fellow shoots with a much much older 90mm and his work is fabulous [Micheal Belbeki (sp?)]. Abject sharpness is nice in certain scenarios but not in all scenarios IMHO.

 

[ocean7]

Don't forget there is also the 90mm Hexanon. People I know who use it find it excellent, and they can be found for a bit less money that the Leica 90mm.

 

[RichardB]

I have had the Canadian second version for 20+ years in chrome for my M3. Its a beautiful lens with the sliding lens hood. I also have the ASPH version. In test shots using K64 and power lines and structures well over a mile away, I can notice no difference under 5x magnification. The Canadian version does weigh a little more in chrome but it is great lens.-Dick

 

[SolaresLarrave]

I've had two 'crons 90mm and both were Canadian. Needless to say, both are great glass. I paid about $300 for the first (a second version, big and heavy), and around $768 for the second, which was the pre-APO version. Don't let the adjective "Canadian" fool you: those lenses ARE just as good as the German ones.

BTW, my Elmarits 28 and 135 are Canadian too. Buy with confidence! 🙂

Last note: I believe the Konica lens is an f2.8, not an f2.

 

[Pherdinand]

I have that lens too.
I like it.
The 90mm framelines on an m2 are pretty small to compose, though.

 

[katgut@earthlink.net]

I also highly recommend the 90/2. I have the last Canadian version, 55 mm. Any issues of sharpness will be caused by focusing or steadiness problems, not the glass. Why are they cheaper? Probably because they're just older models, and Canadian. They tend to be heavy as well. I like the bokeh so much that I bought back one after I had sold it--won't sell it again.

 

[peterm1]

I have been tempted to buy this lens a few times but the deal breaker for me has been its weight. I would end up leaving it at home as unlike you I do not have a specific use in mind. - I just love the look and heft of big glass... but too often tend not to use it in the field when I need to carry it around. This may be a reason for others too. I understand it may be slightly less sharp than more recent models but to me sharpness is over rated at least in a portrait lens. For me that's not a factor.

 

[vol72]

I have used many of the Leica 90s; they are all good objectives. I had the 90 'cron ASPH, a wonderful lens, but better at the mid and far ranges than for portraiture in the close range. I currently use a 90 Elmarit V1 that is better in the near range. The 90 'cron pre-ASPH is a very fine lens. I doubt your will ever 2nd guess your purchase.

 

[Nokton48]

I have a V2 Chrome 90mm F2, I bought here last year, for $200. Sent it to Sherry Krauter, she did a magnificent job, as usual. Yes it's big, but I like it, and won't be selling it. Bought all the Leitz E48 colored original filters for it, too.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

This also doesn't answer your question, but consider getting insulated windows to keep your energy bill costs low. 😀


Oh oh oh, your question is about the 90mm Summicron. Well, the first version is rather heavy and the filter you need for it is Series VII, but its telescopic hood is very nice. The newer "pre-asph" version is lighter, more compact, and the hood isn't that great, but easier to focus, easier to carry, and uses easier-to-find 55mm filters.

It's the convenience that seems to drive some of the prices for these different versions.

Also, there's an urban Internet legend that the first version is "softer" wide open than the newer one. And also, any 90mm f/2.8 Elmarit is apparently "sharper" wide open than the Summicron pre-asph wide open (well, duh, at f/2.8 the DOF is a tad deeper).

The bokeh of the 90mm f/2.8 Elmarit (any version) is beautiful and far better than any of the 90mm Summicron versions (including the APO ASPH). im(vh)o, of course.

 

[Graham Line]

Used a 90/2 for meeting coverage in the '70s. It was probably four or five years old then, whatever model that made it. Canadian Summicron, I think. Probably not an M-Summi.
Image quality, bokeh etc were fine and you could probably get more out of it now with modern films. Simply put, most Leica users now don't see them as must-haves (like a 35/2) so there are more good ones on the market than there are buyers.

 

[vieri]

I have, love and use a lot the 90 cron pre-ASPH. A fantastic lens, great for portraiture, and definitely sharp enough wide open for most use. As someone said, you will have to get use to focus it on a .72 M body, but it can be done very easily IMO after a couple of rolls. 😀

 

[Tom A]

The early 60's and 70's version of the 90f2 (also known as "Big Bertha") is a surprisingly good lens. Wide open it has a sharp center and edge fall off. It is big and heavy, BUT it does have a tripod socket on the lens and for some stuff (music, "speaker" shots etc) you put it on a monopod.
The first version of the "compact" Summicron 90f2 with the single piece collapsible hood was designed by someone who evidently never took pictures! The hood would collapse over the aperture ring (and did it frequently) and when you thought you were changing aperture - you were just twisting the hood! Later it was corrected and it is a good lens, better at f2 than the earlier version in the edges, but similar in the center.
The Apo Summicron 90 that I had for many years was a bit disappointing, considering what the price was. At f2 it was mediocre and it did not come into play until f5.6. Got rid of it and have been sticking to my 90f3.5 and a Canon 85f1.9 for what little "long" stuff I shoot. I do have a couple of 105f2.5 Nikkors for when I need the "perfect" long lens for RF;s.
As for Canadian versus German. The 90f2 was one of Dr Mandler's designs from Midland,Canada and they were almost all built there. When the Apo 90f2.0 came out - production was moved to Germany.
There is no qualitative difference between Canadian built and German built lenses - one of the Leica myth that persists. In fact, apart from the 50f1.4, most lenses were designed and built in Canada and they had the experience and experts to do it - more so than Germany!

 

[JWW]

I have the last pre asph version. It's a great lens and goes well with the m3 vf. Lens performs good at wide open, has good bokeh, and for portraits I don't need ultimate sharpness. The 90's are relatively cheap, maybe due to being too long with the M8. I notice there's at least one for sale in classifieds.

 

[WoolenMammoth]

Don't forget there is also the 90mm Hexanon. People I know who use it find it excellent, and they can be found for a bit less money that the Leica 90mm.

this is easily one of the better lenses you can put on an M mount body. very modern look, almost too sharp wide open for female portraits and stupidly overbuilt quality construction. Ridiculous bargain for the price.

 

[Livesteamer]

I've got one of the fat 90 2.0 lenses that Tom A. spoke of and like it very much. I also have the new Aspherical 90 2.0 but use the old one more because of the tripod socket which has been useful. My old 35 1.4 is Canadian also and both lenses seem just as good as the German built. Get a Canadian 90, you'll like it. Good Luck, Joe

 

[Pablito]

I had the 90mm pre-asph with the sliding hood. DOF is so limited wide open it's easy to make foscusing mistakes. The lens is plenty sharp but in the end I found that longer focal lengths were not for me on the Leicas. I am very finicky about composing - the 90mm frame lines are really small in a .72 finder and it's really hard to frame accurately. Had trouble selling the lens too, in the end I had to let it got for $600