Lens for wedding ceremony in small room

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redsky

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Hi, I will be marrying next year, it will be a simple and small ceremony in a small room. The room is a medieval civil office in Switzerland, very pretty, and it fits about 15 people. My future wife and I find wedding photos and videos very corny, but at the same time we would like to keep a permanent visual memory of the event, so here is my idea:

A friend of mine, a good amateur photographer, will attend the ceremony and he offered to take photos. He will take photos either way. So I will lend him my M6 and let him take some [photojournalistic-type, candid, ambient light] photos of the events.

So, my question is, what would be best lens in this case? I don't own 35mm lens, I am a 50mm type of person, so I am thinking about purchasing a 35mm Summilux or (more likely) the 35mm Nokton. Would 35mm be wide enough for such a room? I normally shoot 15mm indoors, but since there will be people in the photos I don't want that sort of distortion. Also, I would think f/1.4 would be enough to use Tri-X, but I may have to push it 2 stops or so depending on the amount of light in the room, so maybe renting a Noctilux and and going with 50mm could be a feasible idea?

Also, any of you have a good argument against the M6 and that I should give him my a7r instead (or let him use his camera), that will have AF and good quality in high ISO?

Thanks for any insights.

PS: This is a photo of the room http://www.ziviltrauung.ch/images/zuerich-zur-waag8.jpg
 
A 35 sounds ideal. Do you have a 28? It could be done with a 50 if need be.

What is the largest group picture you'd like to take inside that small room?
 
If he is comfortable with using a RF & manual focus etc. in a situation, where he - as a photographer can't just "take his time" to get the shot then I would let him use the M6, if not consider alternatives.

Also if you go with the M6, in such a small location, consider the Voigtlander 21mm f1.8 - I would feel to constricted with a 35mm in such a small room.

Good luck!

Cheers,
/Meakin
 
Whatever you do, I would advise to lend him the gear long before the wedding, and make him use it enough.

My first films after switching from SLRs to RF where rubbish (and I was switching from a Nikon F with primes, I don't know what your friend is used to...)

The Nokton 1.2 makes sense. Or flash. or both :)
 
A wedding in a small room shouldn't be done with a single lens... It can be done in the sense that you can get some photographs, but 99.99% of wedding photographers do it the other way for very good reasons.
It would be normal using 2 cameras (maybe 2 friends/photographers?), one camera/person for real wide use: it can be a DSLR with a wide zoom like the Tokina 11-16, so color can be recorded. The real wide lens is very important because in a wedding you really need to capture precise moments, having just an instant for every moment/people situation, and you can't tell everybody all the time "hey, stay aside and make room for me while I go 5 steps back to be able to get the scene into my narrow angle of view".
Another camera with a 35/50 for black and white and for the shots that don't require you being too close to wide subjects.
I would no doubt have with me a third lens, a portrait lens for any of both cameras, because sometimes it is impossible to shoot close...
This is a basic set.
If flash is used, it's better (a lot more natural) throwing light up instead of direct flash hitting faces. Avoiding flash as much as possible is the general rule for recording the real mood people felt during the event.
Cheers,
Juan
 
Thanks for all the answers.

Frank: The problem with the 28mm is that I would lose at least one stop, since buying a 28mm Summilux is out of question. I am thinking 35mm would work, yes, and I would not want many (or any) posed pictures. If we end up having them, at most 4 people in each.

Light in the room seems to be reasonable, since there are 4 windows with stained glass, I want to avoid flash at all costs. Also, M6 meter sucks, but I could just meter the room in the beginning with a sekonic and that's it, location will not change.

Meakin: I know he has a Canonet, so it should be ok.
21mm was my first thought, but he would have to get too close maybe? Also, I am afraid of the distorion, especially because in such small location the photos are bound to have people new the edges.

Sanmich: Good idea, I will give him the M6 long in advance.
 
I totally forgot to say the most important thing: Congratulations, and wishing you endless years of happiness together!
 
Don't think he will have to get to close (is there such a thing ? ;-) - IMHO keep the main subjects around mid center frame, use depth in image to focus on whats important i.e. utilise foreground and background planes for the edges of the frame, any distortion won't be as obvious and may even add to the image this way.

Also - Good idea with two lense setup.

Cheers,
/Meakin
 
redsky said:
Hi, I will be marrying next year, it will be a simple and small ceremony in a small room. The room is a medieval civil office in Switzerland, very pretty, and it fits about 15 people. My future wife and I find wedding photos and videos very corny, but at the same time we would like to keep a permanent visual memory of the event, so here is my idea:

A friend of mine, a good amateur photographer, will attend the ceremony and he offered to take photos. He will take photos either way. So I will lend him my M6 and let him take some [photojournalistic-type, candid, ambient light] photos of the events.

So, my question is, what would be best lens in this case? I don't own 35mm lens, I am a 50mm type of person, so I am thinking about purchasing a 35mm Summilux or (more likely) the 35mm Nokton. Would 35mm be wide enough for such a room? I normally shoot 15mm indoors, but since there will be people in the photos I don't want that sort of distortion. Also, I would think f/1.4 would be enough to use Tri-X, but I may have to push it 2 stops or so depending on the amount of light in the room, so maybe renting a Noctilux and and going with 50mm could be a feasible idea?

Also, any of you have a good argument against the M6 and that I should give him my a7r instead (or let him use his camera), that will have AF and good quality in high ISO?

Thanks for any insights.

PS: This is a photo of the room http://www.ziviltrauung.ch/images/zuerich-zur-waag8.jpg
Click to expand...

Good thing there's that big window on the left. You say there are four windows, so maybe you can get away with EI 800 for your TriX. If not, rate your film at EI 1250 and leave half a stop or so available for emergencies.

Check with the authorities how close your friend is allowed to get, chances are that he will be asked to remain at a reasonable distance. If you don't want a strobe you don't want a strobe, certain wedding authorities disallow it for long stretches of the ceremony anyway.

IMO you will need at least the 50mm, lots of little things/details flying all around, and that bit of extra reach are going to be handy. Also, the 50mm compresses volumes a bit more than a 35mm, as a result it's a bit more flattering for people. A fast 35mm is going to be OK, esp. if you want to have a consistent look in all your photos. Tell your friend to close down his lens as much as he can get away with in group shots, people are not perfectly aligned in a vertical plane and f/1 or f/1.2 are punishing. It'd be nice if you had a second M to avoid changing lenses but also to have always some frames on the ready. You say you consider renting a Noctilux so I suppose you know what sort of photo you ll be getting. A digital camera like the A7r is going to give you very clean/useable files but Noctilux pics in TriX it will not give.

Last, talk to your bride and manage your expectations. You are going for a few photos with special look (available light, film, breakneck speed lenses), so a complete record of the event is not what you are going to get in to the end. I realise you already know that but it's probably worth repeating to avoid disappointment.

That's all I can think for now. Good luck, happy life together. :)

.
 
i think a reasonably fast 50 should do it if your friend is really used to it. i wouldn't rule out a Medium Format cameras if you love the film look, then you can print it reasonably large and hang on the wall for many years.
Congrats on the wedding. Keep it simple on the gears lots of other things to take care of :)
 
Scope it out

Scope it out

If you have a chance, I would scope out the room during a ceremony, if it's open to the public. Best if it could be the same time of day you have scheduled for yours. Find out if the couple will be facing the windows or have their back to them. See where the celebrant will stand. Determine how long will the ceremony last and how many key moments you'd like to see captured on film.

A little preparation will be a big help in determining which lenses to use(I agree with Juan that two cameras and lenses would be best) and what film speed you'll need. I would avoid having to rely too heavily on fast f stops. They are OK fir head-on shots, but a fast 50 (say the CV Nokton) will have shallow enough DOF that bride and groom will not both be on focus if shot from a diagonal...of course sometimes this looks good, just make sure it's you who's OOF and not the bride ---and this is marital advice, not photographic!
 
Is there any chance you can view the room, with camera, well before the big day - at the same time of day as the ceremony? That will allow you to check FOV coverage if you can take a few lenses with you. Best if your friend could accompany you, given he'll be the one taking photos.

The widest I'm comfortable going without introducing noticeable distortion of people near the edge of the frame is 28mm. 35mm is safer as long as it gives you enough coverage.

The A7r has an advantage in high iso, and colour as well as bw conversions. How noisy is the shutter compared to your M6? The shutter in the Ms is quite unobtrusive. Is that an important consideration?

One other alternative to consider: a smaller sensor digital like the X100. High ISO IQ is excellent and you will have about a stop more DOF for any given aperture, due to the shorter focal length required for the same 35mm fov coverage. Also, it has a silent mode, making it perhaps the most unobtrusive camera you could use. Just a thought.

With both the X100 and A7r you could crop rather than use a teleconverter (X100) or longer lens. In such a small, intimate room I wouldn't want to be changing lenses anyway as I'd be too concerned about missing an important moment. If you wanted more than one focal length I'd recommend two bodies, it's quicker and easier than changing lenses and provides a backup.

Speaking of backups, whether your friend uses the M6, A7r, his Canonet or something else I'd suggest he carry a quality compact digital around his neck "just in case". He will almost certainly not have to use it, but if for some reason the primary camera is damaged it is best to have a backup option, even an iPhone! Some pictures are better than no pictures at all.

Enjoy your day, and congratulations!
 
I would use a 35, people look weird with a 28, and you'll start cutting off feet. You will want to figure out where everyone will be standing, it looks to me that the ceremony will be at the far wall with the windows on the left of the guests. I'd take an incident reading of where the bride's face will be facing the windows. It's likely she'll move her eyes into the shadow of the groom so she can see him without being blinded by the windows. I would stand between the meter and the window when I took the reading to replicate this, although it will blow out the dress, her face will be nicely exposed. Imo. We won't see much of the groom, but with people in those places, that's inevitable without flash. Use a hood!

edit: I see now froyd covered a lot of this...

Further edit: You could also do some testing in 'similar' lighting to nail down your development, you have the time and I'm sure it will help in some way. If it were me, I'd try for f2.8 @ 1/60th..
 
Without wishing to dismiss any of the previous advise, it sounds to me like you want to keep this fairly simple and it doesn't sound like you're looking for blanket coverage. your 50m and a fast 35 will more than suffice, as will the available light.
The only thing I would add is factor in the dark walls which will almost certainly fool the M6's meter to be too slow. underexpose by about three quarters of a stop and you'll have hand holdable shots with 400iso film. Don't over think it, just enjoy the day.
 
I photographed a situation that you described back in late August, a wedding in a small room with marginal lighting. I used my Leica MP with a 35mm Summicron ASPH, with Tri-X rated at 800 and developed in Xtol. The pics came out OK (the bride loved them) but I was sorry I didn’t bring along my old Canon 25mm LTM lens. The room was cramped enough where the extra field of view would have come in handy. My suggestion would be to take along the 35mm as your main lens, and something wider (28mm or 24mm) “just in case.”

Jim B.
 
I shoot a fair number of weddings and would not be comfortable going to one, even a friend's, with unfamiliar equipment. What's wrong with having him use his own gear? But I guess it will also be up to him.

Regarding the room, my main concern would be which way you'll be facing. Will you be seated in one of the three chairs facing the wall with your back to the audience? This would mean the photographer will want to be in one of the corners, ideally the one by the window. Will this be allowed and how tight will it be? 35mm might be OK. I'd probably feel more comfortable with 28, which could be cropped later if a bit loose (but may be contrary to your preferences). I shoot weddings on the M with 21 Lux, 28 Cron and 50 Lux ASPH. The 21 is viable with careful use, but the catch is the auxiliary finder and even then it's not precise framing. It takes some time, IMO, to get a good feel for shooting such a lens and knowing already where the image boundaries approximately are before looking through the finder. It also works best when keeping subject content relatively centrally positioned. I would avoid the 15 except for maybe a couple overall scene-setting type shots.

Another thought about the windows is whether there will be any direct sunlight coming through them at the time of day and year of your wedding? This could complicate things even more...

The a7R's shutter is obnoxious. I'd shy away from using it for something like this... But if you can rent or borrow an a7S, use it with the fully electronic shutter setting - it's totally silent.

As for buying a fast 35mm... I'd hold off on the Nokton until the new Zeiss ZM 35/1.4 has been reviewed. I tried one at PhotoPlus Expo a couple weeks ago and was very, very impressed with it. I also have the Nokton and it's very good for the price, but my feeling is the Zeiss is better, and should be technically better than the Lux ASPH FLE, too (though rendering quality will be more subjective). I posted a few web-rez shots here. They're nothing fancy, but should give an idea.
 
I'd say even more important than which gear to use is the experience/ability the photographer has regarding the ways he/she has to move, and where and when to be placed and ready... A wedding is one of the most demanding photographic situations IMO, both aesthetically and technically, so it's a good idea, if there's only one photographer, using someone with at least a bit of experience in weddings...
Good luck with the ceremony and best wishes forever!
Cheers,
Juan
 
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