rscheffler
Well-known
A little bit more info for others here:
http://www.ziviltrauung.ch/traulokal-zunfthaus-zur-waag-zurich
Scroll down to the last two photos: Waagstübli
Panorama: http://pano2.lunchgate.ch.s3.amazon...thaus-zur-waag/zunfthaus-waag-restaurant.html
Click on the Waag-Stübli orange arrow to go to the room - it's pretty small!
Something I noticed is the ledge under the windows over what I assume are the radiators. There's a gap under the horizontal piece that would allow clamping a super clamp and using something like a Manfrotto magic arm to position a remote camera in case the photographer will not be allowed to stand in the corner. You should definitely check with whoever is doing the ceremony about this. With it being a civil ceremony, you may have more flexibility.
Based on Google Streetview, the venue's front is roughly southeast facing, which means it will get direct sunlight through a fair part of the day. If it's a summer wedding, the sun will be higher in the sky and there may be less direct sunlight able to enter the room.
http://zunfthaus-zur-waag.ch/wp-content/gallery/waagstuebli/stuebli_03.jpg
http://zunfthaus-zur-waag.ch/wp-content/gallery/waagstuebli/stuebli_04.jpg
http://zunfthaus-zur-waag.ch/wp-content/gallery/waagstuebli/stuebli_07.jpg
You can see there is some sunlight in these images, but my guess is the first one above was done fairly early in the morning and likely isn't representative of what you'll encounter. But probably won't hurt to double check this.
http://www.ziviltrauung.ch/traulokal-zunfthaus-zur-waag-zurich
Scroll down to the last two photos: Waagstübli
Panorama: http://pano2.lunchgate.ch.s3.amazon...thaus-zur-waag/zunfthaus-waag-restaurant.html
Click on the Waag-Stübli orange arrow to go to the room - it's pretty small!
Something I noticed is the ledge under the windows over what I assume are the radiators. There's a gap under the horizontal piece that would allow clamping a super clamp and using something like a Manfrotto magic arm to position a remote camera in case the photographer will not be allowed to stand in the corner. You should definitely check with whoever is doing the ceremony about this. With it being a civil ceremony, you may have more flexibility.
Based on Google Streetview, the venue's front is roughly southeast facing, which means it will get direct sunlight through a fair part of the day. If it's a summer wedding, the sun will be higher in the sky and there may be less direct sunlight able to enter the room.
http://zunfthaus-zur-waag.ch/wp-content/gallery/waagstuebli/stuebli_03.jpg
http://zunfthaus-zur-waag.ch/wp-content/gallery/waagstuebli/stuebli_04.jpg
http://zunfthaus-zur-waag.ch/wp-content/gallery/waagstuebli/stuebli_07.jpg
You can see there is some sunlight in these images, but my guess is the first one above was done fairly early in the morning and likely isn't representative of what you'll encounter. But probably won't hurt to double check this.
Scrambler
Well-known
Those photos are really useful. Now ... What lens has been used? I'm not great at this game but would guess 35 mm.
21mm is 90 degrees, meaning that if you are in the corner you get the whole room in. Not ideal for every shot though.
It might be heresy, but if I were doing this, I'd use a dSLR or mirrorless with 24-75mm equivalent lens, or 28mm at the wide end if that's what was available.
Close in the wide aperture you are considering will give narrow depth of field. This will make focus critical and even with experience this isn't guaranteed. I'd prefer f4 and higher ISO. That's my amateur view!
Best wishes for your day! The memories will trump the photos so make sure you just enjoy the moment.
21mm is 90 degrees, meaning that if you are in the corner you get the whole room in. Not ideal for every shot though.
It might be heresy, but if I were doing this, I'd use a dSLR or mirrorless with 24-75mm equivalent lens, or 28mm at the wide end if that's what was available.
Close in the wide aperture you are considering will give narrow depth of field. This will make focus critical and even with experience this isn't guaranteed. I'd prefer f4 and higher ISO. That's my amateur view!
Best wishes for your day! The memories will trump the photos so make sure you just enjoy the moment.
froyd
Veteran
Thanks for the images, rscheffler.
The room looks tiny! For my style of photography I'd use a 21 and 35 and get in close when opportune. I fear 50 would feel too tight in that space unless you are going for head & shoulder images. Is your friend comfortable with wides? On the M6 he would have to use an external VF for the 21 and the DOF in limited light and up-close might be too small for scale focusing unless he's good at it.
PS- Lynnb, love our back-to back comments! funny timing.
The room looks tiny! For my style of photography I'd use a 21 and 35 and get in close when opportune. I fear 50 would feel too tight in that space unless you are going for head & shoulder images. Is your friend comfortable with wides? On the M6 he would have to use an external VF for the 21 and the DOF in limited light and up-close might be too small for scale focusing unless he's good at it.
PS- Lynnb, love our back-to back comments! funny timing.
btgc
Veteran
small room-big lens, small room-small lens
anything works
Just don't ask your friend to take pictures as this impact you friendship
anything works
Just don't ask your friend to take pictures as this impact you friendship
Gumby
Veteran
Having once been "that friend" who was asked to photograph such a difficult situation, you might consider beignthe better friend by letting him/her off the hook. Chances of getting real-time photos that you'll be happy with are slim. I know; I tried such a thing and it nearly destroyed a friendship. I got pics with a 50, 35 and wider lens (I thinkit was a 24 but don't recall specifically) but they generally distorted facial features in an undesireable way, didn't show the dress very well, etc, etc, etc. The level of satifaction on my end as photographer were slim, and the complaints from the bride were endless. Better to enjoy the moment, get happily married, and get the pictures in a more structured way (and in an environment more conducive to quality photography). Or hire a pro who may be better qualified in those kind of difficult environments.
Forgive me for being so negative. Best wishes to you and your bride!
ian_watts
Ian Watts
Yes, that's my feeling. Either have the photography done very casually and let your friend and others do what they wish (i.e. don't ask them to use a specific camera/lens and or shoot in a specific style) or, instead of buying a 35 Summilux, spend the money on a pro who shoots in a style that you like.
froyd
Veteran
I agree with the posts above about the risks of tapping a friend for wedding photos. However, I've had a great experience at mine where a professional wedding photographer (who was also a friend) captured the key shots, and another friend, more grounded on what I will loosely define as artistic image-making, took other images (on BW slide film ...yum!) as her mood struck.
This comes close to the idea that some suggested to hire a photographer with a photographic style you like and free your friend to have fun and take a few snaps along the way.
To this day, the photos from the non-pro friend are some of the most treasured from my wedding. However, I went in with zero expectations that she would capture the whole ceremony for posterity.
This comes close to the idea that some suggested to hire a photographer with a photographic style you like and free your friend to have fun and take a few snaps along the way.
To this day, the photos from the non-pro friend are some of the most treasured from my wedding. However, I went in with zero expectations that she would capture the whole ceremony for posterity.
bobbyrab
Well-known
Funny how things work, I've only ever photographed one wedding in Switzerland and it was at this venue. It may be there are two rooms used for weddings, from the photos posted here it looks like that might be the case, but the wedding I shot was a fairly large room and we had about 25 guests. The officiants were very accommodating so I was able to change positions through the ceremony.
Looking through the exif data, I had digitally a 24-70 on one camera and a fixed 50 on the other. The 24-70 only has one image at 24, all the others are 35 and up. Towards the end I swapped the 50 for a 35/1.4 as the back of the room towards the stairs is darker [I rarely use flash], and the 50 was just a little tight. There's plenty of light. my 50 was on Av 3.2 at @80th at 200-400 iso. I also shot a little film with the M6 and a Zeiss 25/2.8 at 400 iso. If you PM me I can send you a link to an online gallery.
Looking through the exif data, I had digitally a 24-70 on one camera and a fixed 50 on the other. The 24-70 only has one image at 24, all the others are 35 and up. Towards the end I swapped the 50 for a 35/1.4 as the back of the room towards the stairs is darker [I rarely use flash], and the 50 was just a little tight. There's plenty of light. my 50 was on Av 3.2 at @80th at 200-400 iso. I also shot a little film with the M6 and a Zeiss 25/2.8 at 400 iso. If you PM me I can send you a link to an online gallery.
Gumby
Veteran
Similar story with me. In my home there are 6 pics of my wedding displayed: 4 from the pro, one from the pro who "tried out" with a free engagement photo but didn't make the cut, and one (the favorite) that was taken by a random guest. In the end, though, I'm very glad to have the pro shots on the wall and in the album. I'm even gladder that the marriage is still going strong.
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
I would shoot the wedding with a 28mm lens.
I have shot a lot of people pictures using the Leica 28mm Summicron ASPH. I have found that I can get pretty close - as in within arm's length - and fill the frame with my subject(s) with no "egg head" distortion near the frame edges.
I have not had a chance to use a 24mm in this way, but I suspect that at 24mm you will start to see heads that are a bit egg shaped at the frame edges. With a 21mm, you would have to not get too close to your subject, or else place them in or near the center of the frame to avoid distortion.
This has been my experience with the Leica 28mm Summicron and the 21mm Super Elmar. Other makes of lenses will probably render differently.
Hope this helps...
I have shot a lot of people pictures using the Leica 28mm Summicron ASPH. I have found that I can get pretty close - as in within arm's length - and fill the frame with my subject(s) with no "egg head" distortion near the frame edges.
I have not had a chance to use a 24mm in this way, but I suspect that at 24mm you will start to see heads that are a bit egg shaped at the frame edges. With a 21mm, you would have to not get too close to your subject, or else place them in or near the center of the frame to avoid distortion.
This has been my experience with the Leica 28mm Summicron and the 21mm Super Elmar. Other makes of lenses will probably render differently.
Hope this helps...
John E Earley
Tuol Sleng S21-0174
I recently shot a wedding in a home using a D750 and a 24-85 zoom. About half of the shots were made at 50mm with a quarter each at the 24 and 85 ends.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
It worries me that your friend is being lent your camera. Better, imo, to let him use his own camera, because he knows it and how to use it. Or are you really expecting him to bottom load it with film halfway through the ceremony?
And, the guest will have cameras, perhaps? I've know failures by "pro's" be compensated by the better shots taken by the "amateurs" there. So you might not need to worry about your friend with the strange M6...
FWIW, I had no money for film when I got married and just 4 or 5 frames left in the camera. We managed by the way; 4 good shots covered all that was needed.
Regards, David
It worries me that your friend is being lent your camera. Better, imo, to let him use his own camera, because he knows it and how to use it. Or are you really expecting him to bottom load it with film halfway through the ceremony?
And, the guest will have cameras, perhaps? I've know failures by "pro's" be compensated by the better shots taken by the "amateurs" there. So you might not need to worry about your friend with the strange M6...
FWIW, I had no money for film when I got married and just 4 or 5 frames left in the camera. We managed by the way; 4 good shots covered all that was needed.
Regards, David
John E Earley
Tuol Sleng S21-0174
Great story!
robert blu
quiet photographer
john_s
Well-known
I realise that you're not so interested in formal style group photos, but my experience is that a wide angle lens can distort the people at the edge of a group. For a photojournalistic effect, not a problem. In my case, I used an 80mm lens on a 6x7 Mamiya (equivalent to something like 40mm on a 35 film size) in a confined space, so not really very wide, and there was noticeable distortion of the people at the ends of a line of six or eight.
Paul Jenkin
Well-known
I used to shoot weddings on film back in the 80's and there was always a "squeaky bum" element to the whole proceedings insofar as you never knew (until the film was processed) whether the exposure was right, had the fill-in flash been too powerful.
One of the few valid reasons to use digital over film (in my view) is weddings and commercial protography. You get to see the result and can re-shoot if you need to. Personally, I'd go with the Sony on this occasion and get a properly wide zoom lens that will give you at least 24mm - enough to get the people and a bit of the room in view, for context.
When my wife and I got married, I took a tripod, my D700 and shot the event myself using the self timer. That way, everyone gets into the shot.
One of the few valid reasons to use digital over film (in my view) is weddings and commercial protography. You get to see the result and can re-shoot if you need to. Personally, I'd go with the Sony on this occasion and get a properly wide zoom lens that will give you at least 24mm - enough to get the people and a bit of the room in view, for context.
When my wife and I got married, I took a tripod, my D700 and shot the event myself using the self timer. That way, everyone gets into the shot.
sleepyhead
Well-known
If it were me I would use my Voigtlander 21/1.8 combined with a 35mm Summicron.
FrozenInTime
Well-known
The room looks very similar in size to a dining room; for such a 35mm captures the ambience of the setting, 50mm picks out the details.
I would have two cameras with fast 35 and 50mm lenses.
With anything wider than 28mm geometric distortion of people's heads or other thing near the edges is going to be an issue. A cylindrical panorama projection of stitched 35mm frames would be option for an all encompassing formal shot in the room.
I would have two cameras with fast 35 and 50mm lenses.
With anything wider than 28mm geometric distortion of people's heads or other thing near the edges is going to be an issue. A cylindrical panorama projection of stitched 35mm frames would be option for an all encompassing formal shot in the room.
Paolo Bonello
3 from 36 on a good day.
If you're serious about not getting a pro to shoot the wedding then I'd turn that A7r into a big beautiful point and shoot.
I'd offer your friend a mid range zoom on that bad boy. Pre-set the minimum speed and set auto ISO range for him. ie: Range of 100-1600 iso.
Also I'm not sure if it has two card slots but data back-up on 2nd card might be a good idea if it is capable.
If he feels so inclined he can shoot his own film camera as the #2. Something he is familiar with. He can go for gold wide open if he wishes. These will either be cream shots that we all come to RFF to see or they might be garbage. You never know. Old cameras are temperamental. Focus can be difficult up close and wide open, and all sorts of accidents can happen with film handling and exposure.
Perhaps even have a third camera, a digi P&S camera passed around the room. This would be cool to give someone other than your photographer friend to look after and share around the room. You will get a totally different type of candid shot from this camera. They will be low quality on average but a good chance of capturing a classic moment.
I'd offer your friend a mid range zoom on that bad boy. Pre-set the minimum speed and set auto ISO range for him. ie: Range of 100-1600 iso.
Also I'm not sure if it has two card slots but data back-up on 2nd card might be a good idea if it is capable.
If he feels so inclined he can shoot his own film camera as the #2. Something he is familiar with. He can go for gold wide open if he wishes. These will either be cream shots that we all come to RFF to see or they might be garbage. You never know. Old cameras are temperamental. Focus can be difficult up close and wide open, and all sorts of accidents can happen with film handling and exposure.
Perhaps even have a third camera, a digi P&S camera passed around the room. This would be cool to give someone other than your photographer friend to look after and share around the room. You will get a totally different type of candid shot from this camera. They will be low quality on average but a good chance of capturing a classic moment.