bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
Just thought I'd put this post out there to get some general opinions.
Recently I've posted several ads here on RFF, and had a couple auction items on the 'Bay. I priced my items reasonably, typically at what I paid for them originally.
I am very careful with my equipment and I have tried to price my lenses fairly.
Instead, I've noticed two things:
#1. The lenses on the 'Bay sold for considerably less than what I expected.
#2. The ads on RFF are generating interest but no takers.
I'm not trying to spout 'sour grapes', I understand that market conditions can change. But is there something else going on?
Is it the economy? People's disposable income? Uncertainty about Leica's new offerings in 2016? Or is the market for rangefinder equipment already saturated?
Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered,
Robert
Recently I've posted several ads here on RFF, and had a couple auction items on the 'Bay. I priced my items reasonably, typically at what I paid for them originally.
I am very careful with my equipment and I have tried to price my lenses fairly.
Instead, I've noticed two things:
#1. The lenses on the 'Bay sold for considerably less than what I expected.
#2. The ads on RFF are generating interest but no takers.
I'm not trying to spout 'sour grapes', I understand that market conditions can change. But is there something else going on?
Is it the economy? People's disposable income? Uncertainty about Leica's new offerings in 2016? Or is the market for rangefinder equipment already saturated?
Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered,
Robert
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Part of the market dynamics on camera equipment:
- Lots of people are on vacation during the summer months. They usually buy the equipment they're going to take on vacation in early Spring.
- Many people, on return from summer vacations, are getting children ready for school. Many also have the bills from vacation to pay.
I've noticed that more gear tends to sell, and at higher prices, in the time period from end of September to the holidays, and then from about February to mid-May.
G
- Lots of people are on vacation during the summer months. They usually buy the equipment they're going to take on vacation in early Spring.
- Many people, on return from summer vacations, are getting children ready for school. Many also have the bills from vacation to pay.
I've noticed that more gear tends to sell, and at higher prices, in the time period from end of September to the holidays, and then from about February to mid-May.
G
Maiku
Maiku
I second Godfrey.
Vics
Veteran
I'm on the second round at RFf with my Elmar-C 4/90. and no bites. I've noticed KEH is slashing prices...
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
Thanks for the input, I just may have to sit on these sales for a few more weeks until we get closer to gift-giving season. Maybe that would help.
gb hill
Veteran
You have 2 lenses sold in the classifieds. That isn't too bad. If you give more details on that J-3 it might sell. I had to reshim my J-3 to align with my Bessa R. It's a finicky lens but once you get it shimmed right it's a great lens.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
This is valuable information to keep in mind!
codester80
A Touch of Light
It could also be the 4/3rds craze for "legacy" glass has worn off. The prices paid for older lenses the past few years has gotten a little crazy. Everyone was in search of the holy grail of lenses but after fiddling around with old, manual lenses, many realized they prefer autofocus and the ability for the body to communicate with the lens. I'm glad to see prices starting to drop but at the same time wish I would have jumped on the bandwagon and sold off some of my older glass I no longer use regularly to capture the great selling prices. I guess I'll just keep the lenses and use them!
Mudman
Well-known
Just had two lenses sell (with issues) in minutes of listing them on eBay. I gave a good price since they had some problems for the future owners to deal with. YMMV
Antielectrons
Established
Leica lens prices have been down some time on the open market. You can always tell when prices are down because folks try and sell at a BIN prices on eBay rather than let an auction run from $1.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
Add to the above, that with the recent nose dive in the stock market, the "Fear vs. Greed Index" currently has the needle pegged all the way to the fear side.
uhoh7
Veteran
Godfrey is right about the usual fall slump, but no doubt in general, lens prices have been falling, with a few exceptions.
f16sunshine
Moderator
Wait for the holidays if you can.
I have a big lot to sell and will wait until November.
I have a big lot to sell and will wait until November.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
I have this kind of feelings. Two known lenses, low priced. Can't sell.
goamules
Well-known
Yes, the lens trend is way down, from a peak about 4 - years ago. In large format too, which I did a lot of buying and selling in for several years. Then, ANY quality lens was increasing in value every 6 months, by any maker, in any mount.
Today, only a very few, cult lenses are selling for the money they were selling for then. I've sold a lot of my lenses that were very hot then, like Canon 1.2s (were $800, now $300), Angenieux 25/.95 C mounts (were $1200, now $400). I could name many more that you probably wouldn't know in antique large format lenses that are similarly way down, almost half of what they were selling for in 2010. Back then, you could "discover" a dusty old lens to buy for $50 or $100, and flip it easily for $300 to $700. Today, it's all leveled off. Most of the treasures have been scooped up, flipped at least once, and are now sitting, unsold, for too high prices.
Many of the legacy lens shooters went from being middle aged, technically savy people with good careers, to young hipsters with no money. The people using a high end Summicron have been replaced by people using Holgas and 1970s Japanese SLR lenses.
Or Smart phones.... When everything is online (not printed), does it matter if that "retro look" is from an Instragram plugin, or an old Leica lens? Most would rather get the look for free.
Today, only a very few, cult lenses are selling for the money they were selling for then. I've sold a lot of my lenses that were very hot then, like Canon 1.2s (were $800, now $300), Angenieux 25/.95 C mounts (were $1200, now $400). I could name many more that you probably wouldn't know in antique large format lenses that are similarly way down, almost half of what they were selling for in 2010. Back then, you could "discover" a dusty old lens to buy for $50 or $100, and flip it easily for $300 to $700. Today, it's all leveled off. Most of the treasures have been scooped up, flipped at least once, and are now sitting, unsold, for too high prices.
Many of the legacy lens shooters went from being middle aged, technically savy people with good careers, to young hipsters with no money. The people using a high end Summicron have been replaced by people using Holgas and 1970s Japanese SLR lenses.
Or Smart phones.... When everything is online (not printed), does it matter if that "retro look" is from an Instragram plugin, or an old Leica lens? Most would rather get the look for free.
Brian Legge
Veteran
Prices are definitely down. I just saw a Elmarit-M 28 Asph go for just over $1,100 on ebay. Thats almost exactly half its current retail price.
Huss
Veteran
I think that a lot of people have realised that they can get incredible results with legacy lenses from the likes of Minolta (who are so good that they made some stuff for Leica), Pentax etc so why bother with pricey glass?
Excellent lenses like Minolta 35 2.8 and 50 1.4 can be had for under $50. Often way under $50. So they may think why drop coin on something else?
Excellent lenses like Minolta 35 2.8 and 50 1.4 can be had for under $50. Often way under $50. So they may think why drop coin on something else?
back alley
IMAGES
with digital folks wanted to use their favouite manual legacy lenses…some worked well some didn't..so people went on a shopping spree to find better fits…lens to body/sensor…but i think more folks like me either tried and then went directly to oem lenses to 'fit' best with their bodies or just went directly to oem lenses…i use fuji bodies and the fuji lenses are excellent…why would i bother with legacy lenses that present problems with some sensors or need to focus manually?
goamules
Well-known
Because at the time, 5-10 years ago, there had been a slump in all manual lenses. It was a perfect storm for quality glass from Germany and Japan's 1950s - 1970s golden era. Those companies spend millions to design glass, and their lenses were too expensive for many of us to afford, when current.
So rather than picking up Canon AE-1 glass at the Goodwill for $8, a lot of people started realizing their dream lenses from Nikon and Leica were quite reasonable, often just $100 or so. Whereas a current Canon or Nikon DSLR lens was much more. The internet fostered the discussions, and competition and bragging started happening. Prices rose too far, too fast.
Of course, this is the Rangefinder forum, and we are more esoteric people. We wanted small, precise optics and cameras. When we started adapting to digital, we realized the smaller RF lenses were a good size for the smaller digital cameras. And still are.
So rather than picking up Canon AE-1 glass at the Goodwill for $8, a lot of people started realizing their dream lenses from Nikon and Leica were quite reasonable, often just $100 or so. Whereas a current Canon or Nikon DSLR lens was much more. The internet fostered the discussions, and competition and bragging started happening. Prices rose too far, too fast.
Of course, this is the Rangefinder forum, and we are more esoteric people. We wanted small, precise optics and cameras. When we started adapting to digital, we realized the smaller RF lenses were a good size for the smaller digital cameras. And still are.
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
All good responses, and good information. Thanks to everyone for your contributions.
I also was thinking that perhaps the 'legacy glass' phenomenon has kind of run its course. At any rate, I think I'll just have to be much more patient and perhaps dial back my expectations of what the market can handle right now.
And yes, I sold a couple of lenses this weekend, but they weren't 'state of the art' lenses and I sold them at a small loss.
Another example: I recently auctioned off a Zeiss ZM 21/F2.8 on the 'Bay after I couldn't generate any interest with classifieds. I purchased the lens used about 3 years ago for $950, and at the time I thought THAT was a great price. This week it sold on eBay for $650. I have to admit I was a little stunned.
Bad timing or cosmic justice! Anyway, live and learn.
I also was thinking that perhaps the 'legacy glass' phenomenon has kind of run its course. At any rate, I think I'll just have to be much more patient and perhaps dial back my expectations of what the market can handle right now.
And yes, I sold a couple of lenses this weekend, but they weren't 'state of the art' lenses and I sold them at a small loss.
Another example: I recently auctioned off a Zeiss ZM 21/F2.8 on the 'Bay after I couldn't generate any interest with classifieds. I purchased the lens used about 3 years ago for $950, and at the time I thought THAT was a great price. This week it sold on eBay for $650. I have to admit I was a little stunned.
Bad timing or cosmic justice! Anyway, live and learn.