Leica LTM Leotax S Information Sought

[David Murphy]

Has anyone here heard or seen the Leotax S model ? I recently acquired a broken Leotax S body which I am now having repaired.

Does anyone have any idea of its value (or is it so rare that appraisal is difficult) ? How about the exisitence of a manual ? Does anyone know which of its two flash plugs is for electronic flash and which is for bulbs ? What are the synced shutter speeds ?

Any helpful comments are welcome. I'll post photos taken with it and of it when it comes out of the shop.

 

[ravid905]

Here is a link, I'm not sure how helpful it is to you, but it's usually where I go when I to get hang on all the different copies there are.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/iannorris/leica_copies/leica_copies_l/leotaxs.htm

 

[VictorM.]

Google is your friend! Google also gives search results for ebay.

 

[David Murphy]

Hi, yes well I know all about Google and eBay, but there is simply a dearth of real detailed information out there regarding Leotax. There are some interesting Japanese sites with Leotax info, but I don't know the language. I suppose this means its an unexplored frontier for collectibility.

 

[VictorM.]

I didn't intend my quick reply to sound dismissive. Although there may be a shortage of information on-line about Leotax cameras, there is some.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/iannorris/leica_copies/leica_copies_l/histleotax.htm
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/iannorris/leica_copies/leica_copies_l/leotaxs.htm
http://translate.google.com/transla.../search?q=%22Showa+Optical+Works%22&hl=en&lr=
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00GDvM&tag=

Guide to value: http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache...Leotax+S"&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=5&lr=lang_en

The p-net link has the name of a book about Leica copies that will open a new line of research.

 

[VictorM.]

To determine which flash connector is synched for flash (x sync): remove the lens and the bottom of the camera. Carefully insert a piece of white paper behind the shutter. Set the shutter speed to 1/30. Plug a flash into one connector (auto flash set to the lowest power setting, widest f-stop) and, pointing it into the camera, fire. If you see the complete film gate, the flash is plugged in correctly and the shutter speed is correct. If only a part of the white shows, the shutter speed is too fast. Try again with a slower shutter speed. If you see the entire film gate, try the next faster speed until you lose part of the white. Now you know the highest sync speed.

 

[furcafe]

I was the person who posted in Steve Salmons's photo.net thread that Victor linked to in his 2nd message. I have 2 Leotax S's (1 repaired/restored by DAG, 1 broken serving as parts/backup). From my experience on eBay, I think the S is generally valued @ around $300-500 (body only) depending on condition. For all I know, they may very well fetch more in Japan, as the Japanese Leica copies & LTM lenses have somewhat of a cult following there. I'm sure they issued a manual, but have never seen 1 offered on eBay or elsewhere.

I rarely use flash (& when I do it's on a modern camera), so I can't help you w/your flash questions.

 

[bob cole]

Leotax S Information Sought Reply to Thread

Leotax S Information Sought Reply to Thread

David, here are some JPEGS from "Leica Copies," by HPR, which notes that the Leotax S is the first Leotax that is synchronized. "300 Leica Copies" by Pont/Princelle notes that the S came with either the Topcor 50mm/3.5 or the Simlar 50mm/1.5 while HPR says the Simlar was standard...


For an idea of its value, have a look here:

6625312521 (ebay)

 

[bob cole]

Leotax S Information Sought (2)

Leotax S Information Sought (2)

David, here's something extra on Leotax fakes...It's not too good because the only way I could send it was to copy it off the computer screen...It's from the Classic Camera Ring and probably was made in the FSU...It's not an S model but it's still a Leotax fake...

 

[David Murphy]

David, here's something extra on Leotax fakes...It's not too good because the only way I could send it was to copy it off the computer screen...It's from the Classic Camera Ring and probably was made in the FSU...It's not an S model but it's still a Leotax fake...

Thanks to all for the new information. Mine is probably not a fake -- the pictured fake does not have the two PC contacts that the Leotax S has and mine is clearly a very old camera. Perhaps they were faking S models back in the 50's, don't know -- that would have been rather ambitious !

 

[David Murphy]

To determine which flash connector is synched for flash (x sync): remove the lens and the bottom of the camera. Carefully insert a piece of white paper behind the shutter. Set the shutter speed to 1/30. Plug a flash into one connector (auto flash set to the lowest power setting, widest f-stop) and, pointing it into the camera, fire. If you see the complete film gate, the flash is plugged in correctly and the shutter speed is correct. If only a part of the white shows, the shutter speed is too fast. Try again with a slower shutter speed. If you see the entire film gate, try the next faster speed until you lose part of the white. Now you know the highest sync speed.

Victor - thanks -- I'll give this a try when it comes back from the shop. My repair tech said that the lower contact is usually the electronic sync on cameras with two connector arranged vertically.

 

[David Murphy]

As promised here are photos of my Leotax S. It just came back from Don Goldberg at DAG camera. He worked his miracles on this old camera by replacing the shutter curtains and a few other missing parts. I can't say enough good things about Don and his business. Not all the Leotax S parts are exactly Leica compatible, but somehow Don knows what to do. Bear in mind that Leotax went out of business in 1961 and was a small volume producer of cameras!

As shown in the photos, I have a Summitar 50/2 Collapsible on the camera as it's the closest thing I have to a "correct" lens. If anyone knows where I can buy the "correct" Simlar 50/3.5 or Topcon lens at a reasonable price let me know. I don't know which Topcon lens it was reputedly sold with, perhaps someone can fill in this historical gap.

The leather case seen on one of the photos is a very nice American-made cow hide case of unkown make that I found on eBay at low cost. I assume it was an aftermarket case for Leica III's and their clones back in the 50's when these cameras had mainstream currency.

This camera will get a work out in the next few days and I'll try to post a few results soon.

Happy Holidays To All!!

 

[David Murphy]

Finally some photos from my Leotax S. The first photo is of my 8 y/o son taken with the Leotax S and a 50/3.5 Fed Collapsible. The next four photos are with the Leotax and the "correct" 50/3.5 Leotax Simlar. The Fed is probably a better lens (also based on other photo shoots I've done with it). Nevertheless the Simlar is a reasonably good performer. The film is Sam Sung ISO 200 color print film from the 99 cents store processed at the local drug store and scanned on my Dimage Dual Scan IV film scanner. I've done a bit of scratch/dust removal on the scans, very slightly tweaked the exposure, and cropped slightly, but these are close to raw scans.

An aside: I've always found it remarkable how much better the FSU lenses were than their cameras.

 

[John Shriver]

The 50/3.5 Simlar was the most likely original lens for the Leotax S, although the much rarer 50/1.5 Simlar was an option.

Collectors of Tokyo Kogaku (later Topcon) lenses for LTM are deep-pocketed.

 

[David Murphy]

John, any idea how the performance of the all these lenses compare? For instance, how's the Simlar 50/1.5 compared to say a Sonnar 50/1.5 or a 50/1.5 Summarit ? How about the Topcors -- how do they stack up -- worth the money?

I'd summarize the photos I've taken with the Simlar 50/1.5 as typically "Elmar 50/3.5 like". This seems to be characterized by slightly soft to the same degree across the whole field, but somehow pleasing. The colors came out decently -- not the sort of metallic-monochrome looking color distortion that one see's on uncoated early Leica lenses. As I noted above, I think the Fed 50/3.5 is better than a Simlar 50/3.5, but the Fed may actually be a more modern lens and I think they are Zeiss Tessar copies (explains a lot). My Simlar 50/3.5 is made like an Elmar mechanically, i.e. well -- perhaps better, i.e. real nice. (Fed's are rougher mechanically as is typical for FSU).

 

[Meleica]

The Leotax cameras are not rare - value in good working order for the more common models is around $ 250.
Attached are some notes from the Lens Collectors Vade Mecum on their lenses ( http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/sell.htm )

Here are some closed ebay auctions too

http://search-completed.ebay.com/se...action=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search

Here is a Japanese page on Leotax ( translated )
http://translate.google.com/transla...www003.upp.so-net.ne.jp/Topconclub/Leotax.htm

And another page on related lenses ( translated )
http://translate.google.com/transla...www003.upp.so-net.ne.jp/Topconclub/Leotax.htm

Lens diagrams http://translate.google.com/transla...ww003.upp.so-net.ne.jp/Topconclub/lenscut.htm


and http://www.cameraguild.jp/nekosan/leotax.htm


Dan

 

[John Shriver]

I really have no experience with LTM Topcor/Simlar lens performance. They're just out of my price range.

I've had excellent results with the Topcor SLR lenses for my Topcon camera, they were mostly first-rate. I know one of the wides vignettes pretty badly, don't know if it's the 35mm or the 25mm (slides are too old to remember what lens I used). The few lens reviews that were done on the SLR RE Topcors were almost uniformly excellent. (The UV Topcors for the leaf shutter cameras are another issue. Even the reviews were middling.)

Tokyo Kogaku were just too slow bringing things to market. Also, the long relationship with Beseler in the US was probably a mixed blessing, Beseler was very much into price fixing. The lack of discounting probably hurt market share in the long run.

 

[furcafe]

I have the 50/1.5 Simlar. It is, IIRC, a Summarit variant or @ least some sort of similar double-Gauss/Planar design. I think it was Peter Evans on photo.net who informed me that the 50/1.5 Simlar was Tokyo Kogaku's own special design. How special I don't know, but that, in addition to rarity, may account for some of its popularity in Japan. Since I have no Summarit, I can't really confirm on any of its similarities to that design, but it appears to share many of the qualities of other 1950s lenses, i.e.., high resolution, particularly in the center, but low-contrast. It is a very nicely-made lens (in keeping w/the Leotax cameras), comparable to the Nikkors in LTM.

My pix taken w/the lens:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/furcafe/tags/tokyooptical5cm15simlarc195254/

John, any idea how the performance of the all these lenses compare? For instance, how's the Simlar 50/1.5 compared to say a Sonnar 50/1.5 or a 50/1.5 Summarit ? How about the Topcors -- how do they stack up -- worth the money?

I'd summarize the photos I've taken with the Simlar 50/1.5 as typically "Elmar 50/3.5 like". This seems to be characterized by slightly soft to the same degree across the whole field, but somehow pleasing. The colors came out decently -- not the sort of metallic-monochrome looking color distortion that one see's on uncoated early Leica lenses. As I noted above, I think the Fed 50/3.5 is better than a Simlar 50/3.5, but the Fed may actually be a more modern lens and I think they are Zeiss Tessar copies (explains a lot). My Simlar 50/3.5 is made like an Elmar mechanically, i.e. well -- perhaps better, i.e. real nice. (Fed's are rougher mechanically as is typical for FSU).

 

[David Murphy]

The Leotax cameras are not rare - value in good working order for the more common models is around $ 250.
Attached are some notes from the Lens Collectors Vade Mecum on their lenses ( http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/sell.htm )

Here are some closed ebay auctions too

http://search-completed.ebay.com/se...action=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search

Here is a Japanese page on Leotax ( translated )
http://translate.google.com/transla...www003.upp.so-net.ne.jp/Topconclub/Leotax.htm

And another page on related lenses ( translated )
http://translate.google.com/transla...www003.upp.so-net.ne.jp/Topconclub/Leotax.htm

Lens diagrams http://translate.google.com/transla...ww003.upp.so-net.ne.jp/Topconclub/lenscut.htm


and http://www.cameraguild.jp/nekosan/leotax.htm


Dan

Thanks for the links.

There's usually no more than 1-2 for sale on eBay at any time, and these are often the same ones in eBay stores at high prices (so they don't sell). While perhaps not rare, they are not common (as, say most Leica cameras are).

 

[OldNick]

David, I'm glad to see that someone else besides myself can't resist taking airplane photos. I lost my "medical" about the time rental prices starting going up, so the photos have to serve as my flying "fix". Thanks for sharing the Leotax info.

Jim N.