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Yes That's the one.... back in the day before the big new "Leica Store" It was a lovely little shop.
Let's see your Leica M
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Yes That's the one.... back in the day before the big new "Leica Store" It was a lovely little shop.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
I've been there often, but never bought anything! Here in The Netherlands everything was much cheaper then.
Erik.
Erik.
SimonPJ
Well-known
Hmmm, I have the camera that Simon shows in my archives for many years. It is not a Shintaro painted camera, but a real 1959 Leitz one, originally chrome but redone in black paint by Leitz in the 1960's. The chrome eyelets are the giveaway.
Erik.
This is the very same camera as on Simons' picture above:
Interesting... Erik, I think you must have that photo from when I have posted a picture of this camera at some time in the past. I have been on here since 2005, so it might well have been quite a while ago.
I wish the camera was, in fact, a genuine Leica-painted M2, but I'm afraid it is not. It was my first ever Leica camera, purchased as a chrome M2 in the spring of 1999 from, if I remember correctly, Fox Talbot camera shop on The Strand in London, for about £300. I bought it because I needed a very quiet and unobtrusive camera to use during some ethnographic research I was conducting in a hospital setting. It was only after that very practical introduction to Leicas that I started to read about Leica history.
I found out about Shintaro Yaginuma's Leica painting via Stephen Gandy's website, and Tom Abrahamsson, and later in 1999 I sent my camera off to Shintaro in Japan. He used what he told me was his latest paint formulation, which aimed to reproduce faithfully the way that Leica paint from the M2 and M3 era broke down with a kind of internal bubbling over time. And that is exactly what has happened to the finish over the intervening twenty years, during which this, my first Leica, has been by far my most used camera.
The fact that it could be mistaken for your very similar genuine black paint M2, Erik, is certainly a tribute to Shintaro's work.
Shintaro set the early standard to a high level. I sent him an M3 back in late 1999 and picked it up from him in Tokyo a few months later.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Interesting... Erik, I think you must have that photo from when I have posted a picture of this camera at some time in the past. I have been on here since 2005, so it might well have been quite a while ago.
I wish the camera was, in fact, a genuine Leica-painted M2, but I'm afraid it is not. It was my first ever Leica camera, purchased as a chrome M2 in the spring of 1999 from, if I remember correctly, Fox Talbot camera shop on The Strand in London, for about £300. I bought it because I needed a very quiet and unobtrusive camera to use during some ethnographic research I was conducting in a hospital setting. It was only after that very practical introduction to Leicas that I started to read about Leica history.
I found out about Shintaro Yaginuma's Leica painting via Stephen Gandy's website, and Tom Abrahamsson, and later in 1999 I sent my camera off to Shintaro in Japan. He used what he told me was his latest paint formulation, which aimed to reproduce faithfully the way that Leica paint from the M2 and M3 era broke down with a kind of internal bubbling over time. And that is exactly what has happened to the finish over the intervening twenty years, during which this, my first Leica, has been by far my most used camera.
The fact that it could be mistaken for your very similar genuine black paint M2, Erik, is certainly a tribute to Shintaro's work.
Yes, now I see it from the top, I see it is a repaint (you can tell by the way the serial number is engraved. True black Leicas have the number engraved after the painting is done).
I have always thought that the camera on the picture was real. But now I see that it is something that is much rarer than a real black painted M2: a Shintaro repaint!
Thank you, Simon, for telling the story and showing the pictures.
Erik.
Having painted many Ms myself, most serial number engravings were not as deep as the engraving of the "Leica" script and other text, which meant that it was harder to fill in white paint after the top plate was painted black. Sometimes the engraving was so shallow, I just left the serial number unfilled (just the coat of black), without any white infill, because the edges were not defined very well after trying to fill-in with white paint, and it was difficult for the number to look correct.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Yes, that is why Leitz engraved the number after the painting. However, the other lettering was stamped in during the manufacture of the part, but much deeper in parts that had to be painted than parts that had to be chromed.
Erik.
Possibly, but that might be difficult to do without messing up the paint. Maybe they engraved slightly deeper serial numbers on the top plates that were destined to receive black paint?
Erik van Straten
Veteran
No, you see clearly a difference between the serial number and the other lettering. The serial numbers are engraved.
The other lettering is stamped in. That is, in the classic top plates of the MP, M2, M3 and M4. The black paint top plates of the new MP are made in a completely different way.
Erik.
steveyork
Well-known
Camera Porn Friday by Steve, on FlickrCamera Porn Friday. I had some frames to use up.
35mm Elmarit at or close to minimum focusing distance on Foma 100 in HC-110
SimonPJ
Well-known
Very interesting. I have a camera with a Leica spare part black paint top plate. I have enquired with several Leica repair and restoration specialists about having the serial number engraved, but they either said that they were not able to do engraving, or that it was inadvisable because it would be difficult to match the font. So that particular camera remains without a serial number on the top plate.
Yes, the serials are engraved, but I am doubtful engraving on black paint top plates was done after they were painted, however.
Yes I would advise similarly. Do you know what the original serial number was?
Erik van Straten
Veteran
SimonPJ
Well-known
I do know what the original serial number was. It’s unusual in that the camera consists of M2 internals inside new old stock replacement body parts for an MP. Initially I wanted to have the M2 serial number engraved into the MP top plate, prefaced by “M2”, as on an M2. But I’m happy now to have it without serial number so that it remains just what it is - M2 internals inside MP replacement part externals.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
SimonPJ
Well-known
Original MP from 1956. Though the top plate has the flatter paint finish of later M3s, so I don’t know whether it dates from the original production period of the MP.
Yes. It's possible that engraving could be done after paint was applied, I just find that unlikely for production parts.
After painting ~100 or so M bodies, including more than one that were original black paint, there was variation in the serial number engraving depth. Some were 'shallower' than others, which meant that white infill was a challenge to apply; others were deeper engravings which made the infill very simple.
I could do a paint batch of 4-5 top plates and the depth variation was quite apparent.
The depth of the "Leica" script and associated text, however, did not vary.
There wasn't a huge variation in depth of the serial, but there was enough that a layer of paint could be the difference between a crisp, defined serial number and a number with poorly defined edges. It must be said that it is unknown what the exact depth of a factory layer of paint was.
Ultimately this doesn't really matter, it just seems more logical to me that paint would be done after engraving.
Anyone have an original black paint body? One could remove the white infill from one of the numbers and see if there is black paint underneath.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Anyone have an original black paint body? One could remove the white infill from one of the numbers and see if there is black paint underneath.
Yes, I have one, a Leica M2 from 1958, serial 9486XX. From the symbol "4" the paint is partly fallen out. When I observe this figure with a strong loupe, I can see that the place where the paint has disappeared is ... brass! No black paint.
Sometimes the numbers on black Leicas have a greenish tone. That is because the white paint reacted with the brass underneath.
Erik.
Is it possible the white paint flaked off, and also the black paint underneath?
I've handled many original black paint M2 and M3 but never noticed greenish numbers, although the white hadn't actually been white for many years. The only ones that still had white were later M4s with very little usage...even this brassed one still had white:
Bonus M2 pic.
I've handled many original black paint M2 and M3 but never noticed greenish numbers, although the white hadn't actually been white for many years. The only ones that still had white were later M4s with very little usage...even this brassed one still had white:
Bonus M2 pic.