keats1964
Member
Okay Fuji,
This is what all we wannabe Gary Winogrand photographers need to shoot as he taught while a professor at University of Texas. The x100 must be able to zone focus EASILY. On a Leica M film camera (and M9), we simply match up the aperture chosen to a zone of focus we desire as noted on the lens barrel. Even the R-D1 and M8 require mental conversions to the appropriate zone because of the focal length conversions due to their sensor size.
We have to be able to visually confirm the zone of acceptable focus quickly, and WITHOUT bringing the camera to eye level.
A couple of ideas:
1) Since this probably isn't possible with markings on an autofocus lens, Visual confirmation of zone-focus achieved at any combination of f-stop and focus distance should be visible on the LCD (not just through the viewfinder). Have an lcd "zone focus" preset mode that ONLY SHOWS the distance scale, focus distance, and adjacent acceptable focus scale (which should change in real-time as the user changes f-stop and/or manual focus point). This screen should be ALL BLACK except for the scales so that having it on isn't like having a flashlight shining out of the back of the camera. The scales should be bright enough to see at waist level on a sunny day. This should also be available from a dedicated button (or programmable function button) with instant on/off.
2) A hyper-focal distance setting where as you change f-stops the software automatically changes the focus distance to the appropriate hyper-focal distance. (This would only be a strong solution at smaller apertures for street shooting). This would still need the same visual confirmation that doesn't require looking through the viewfinder.
Basically, a true visual confirmation of zone-focus at any focus point/f-stop is what is really applicable to the shooting style of Gary Winogrand and countless other manual camera street/reportage shooters.
Count me in if you an achieve the above suggestions. In fact, make a model with a 50mm f1.4 and count me in for that too.
Thanks and Good Luck.
This is what all we wannabe Gary Winogrand photographers need to shoot as he taught while a professor at University of Texas. The x100 must be able to zone focus EASILY. On a Leica M film camera (and M9), we simply match up the aperture chosen to a zone of focus we desire as noted on the lens barrel. Even the R-D1 and M8 require mental conversions to the appropriate zone because of the focal length conversions due to their sensor size.
We have to be able to visually confirm the zone of acceptable focus quickly, and WITHOUT bringing the camera to eye level.
A couple of ideas:
1) Since this probably isn't possible with markings on an autofocus lens, Visual confirmation of zone-focus achieved at any combination of f-stop and focus distance should be visible on the LCD (not just through the viewfinder). Have an lcd "zone focus" preset mode that ONLY SHOWS the distance scale, focus distance, and adjacent acceptable focus scale (which should change in real-time as the user changes f-stop and/or manual focus point). This screen should be ALL BLACK except for the scales so that having it on isn't like having a flashlight shining out of the back of the camera. The scales should be bright enough to see at waist level on a sunny day. This should also be available from a dedicated button (or programmable function button) with instant on/off.
2) A hyper-focal distance setting where as you change f-stops the software automatically changes the focus distance to the appropriate hyper-focal distance. (This would only be a strong solution at smaller apertures for street shooting). This would still need the same visual confirmation that doesn't require looking through the viewfinder.
Basically, a true visual confirmation of zone-focus at any focus point/f-stop is what is really applicable to the shooting style of Gary Winogrand and countless other manual camera street/reportage shooters.
Count me in if you an achieve the above suggestions. In fact, make a model with a 50mm f1.4 and count me in for that too.
Thanks and Good Luck.
GSNfan
Well-known
I think what you're trying to say is that X100 should have distance markings on the focus barrel?
Arjay
Time Traveller
Keats1964, I second your suggestions 1 and 2. This would be very valuable for Ignore Your ViewFinder shooting.
As to '50mm' focal length - let's first wait how the '35mm' version turns out.
As to '50mm' focal length - let's first wait how the '35mm' version turns out.
Nope - it would IMHO be sufficient if that info were displayed on the monitor on the camera's rear side.
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I suspect they will completely redesign their camera based on your letter and push back the release time until 4th quarter 2011. Thanks.
Honestly, who's to say they haven't already implemented a good way to zone focus?
Honestly, who's to say they haven't already implemented a good way to zone focus?
Arjay
Time Traveller
I'm glad to see that Keats' suggestions don't require a hardware redesign. A firmware update would be all that's needed.
videogamemaker
Well-known
Seeing as it will most likely display on the back LCD the same info displayed in the EVF (a guess, but highly likely imo), couldn't you just turn brightness on the LCD way down so it isn't so bright, but still shows the zone area? If it's really important, you could tape over the entire LCD with gaffer tape, so that only the zone focus scale shows, and use only the EVF to chimp (sounds like they are making that possible).
GSNfan
Well-known
Why not the lens barrel? After all that is where zone focus option is located in almost all of the rangefinder cameras that X100 and by extension Fuji is trying to emulate? Its also where most of us who're used to Rfs look automatically to zone focus.
In fact with the EVF option, there is no need for the back LCD.
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gavinlg
Veteran
I don't mean to sound like a negative nancy, but there is a very easy method you can use to use zone focussing like a manual camera.
1. Set AF to back button (AF on - rear of camera)
2. Use button to focus on something irrelevant that is roughly the distance you want the lens to be at
3. Set aperture
4. Shoot.
I've done this with an E-p1 and it worked perfectly, I never felt the need to have anything more for hyperfocal shooting.
1. Set AF to back button (AF on - rear of camera)
2. Use button to focus on something irrelevant that is roughly the distance you want the lens to be at
3. Set aperture
4. Shoot.
I've done this with an E-p1 and it worked perfectly, I never felt the need to have anything more for hyperfocal shooting.
Frankie
Speaking Frankly
Fuji has already provided a good zone focusing method...focal distance with DoF displayable in both the O/EVF and LCD. Obviously only workable in Manual mode.
I believe the lens is focused-by-wire [two tiny motors are visible in the lens module]. If focusing is set to manual, then rotating the focusing and/or aperture ring will cause the DoF range to change...those rings are encoded to supply the variables in the firmware LUT that recalculate the DoF, also causes f-stop to be displayed...
Fuji knows what they are doing.
I believe the lens is focused-by-wire [two tiny motors are visible in the lens module]. If focusing is set to manual, then rotating the focusing and/or aperture ring will cause the DoF range to change...those rings are encoded to supply the variables in the firmware LUT that recalculate the DoF, also causes f-stop to be displayed...
Fuji knows what they are doing.
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Frankie
Speaking Frankly
The lens barrel is just that...a barrel. Imagine if the lens is set at AF-S or AF-C, then the lens module within will do its thing without necessarily causing the focusing ring to also self-rotate.
I had always imagined that the lens is focus-by-wire. After seeing the lens module recently, I now believe it is so.
See: http://www.finepix-x100.com/story/
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semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
^--- it simply doesn't make design sense to use a mechanically-coupled helicoid on an AF lens for a compact camera. Fly-by wire is more accurate, and more importantly involves less moving mass and FAR less friction, thereby improving the precision of the mechanism and the speed of focus, and decreasing the size and weight of all necessary components including the lens armature and battery.
hexiplex
Well-known
... What is wrong with snap focus and setting the aperture at f/5.6 or f/8? Snap focus works excellently on the GRD III, why not on the X100?
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
I'm not exactly clear why you would need to zone focus an AF camera, if the AF is any good at all. My Canon DSLR's will snap into focus almost instantly. Why not just use autofocus?
btgc
Veteran
Well, sometimes snap mode is more reliable than AF especially when there are choices of near/far objects and no time to select from AF spots.
Canon DSLR probably has different AF implementation than compact cameras, I'm just guessing.
Canon DSLR probably has different AF implementation than compact cameras, I'm just guessing.
mto'brien
Well-known
is this true? a cropped sensor changes the distance to subject? i set hyperfocal as i would with a film camera on my m8 all the time and i have never had an issue. please correct me if i'm wrong.
Frankie
Speaking Frankly
AF works if the subject happens to be in the sweet spot. If not, then the MO would be AFL and recompose...while you are at it, AEL as well. AND, Fuji provides such a button at your right thumb...Fuji knows what they are doing.
Arjay
Time Traveller
Well, I very often preset my camera and shoot 'from the hip' without ever looking through the viewfinder. How on earth would the camera AF be able to lock on exactly the right object if I'm not taking the camera to my eyes? That's why I think zone focussing still makes sense - even in the age of autofocus.
The camera that's capable of guessing what I want to shoot hasn't yet been invented (unless I'm shooting faces, in which case e.g. my Nikon D300 can actually lock on any face in its FoV, provided there's enough light. But we don't know if the X100 will have face recognition.).
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Frankie
Speaking Frankly
That's assuming the AF is more DSLR speed than Leica X1 speed.
Fuji's recent update says the X100 shutter lag is 0.01s or 10ms, on par with M cameras which is widely believed to be 8~15ms.
http://www.finepix-x100.com/your-questions-answered/functions-capabilities
I would normally assume that shutter lag is the combined delays caused by AE/AF...and in the case of DSLR, also mirror flop.
However, live-view is available in X100, which means the shutter has to first close before every exposure, and the X100 supports 5F/s; or 5 closings every second...plus AE-C/AF-C delays.
The new data gave me every reason to believe the X100 will be much faster than Leica X1.
Shutter lag and AF lag are totally different things IMO. There's negligible shutter lag in the X1, but a ton of AF lag.
By all means, the X100 should be faster than the X1.