Captain Kidd
Well-known
Hello everyone,
What would be the best process to take a light reading when facing into oncoming light. Today I was in a park, heavy bright sun. When using the light meter with my back to the sun I take a light reading by pointing the light meter towards the camera, and ultimately towards the sun too. Is it the same light reading I should use facing any other direction, it makes sense that it is, considering the light hasn’t changed or should I make an allowance if I turn to face towards the sun?
What would be the best process to take a light reading when facing into oncoming light. Today I was in a park, heavy bright sun. When using the light meter with my back to the sun I take a light reading by pointing the light meter towards the camera, and ultimately towards the sun too. Is it the same light reading I should use facing any other direction, it makes sense that it is, considering the light hasn’t changed or should I make an allowance if I turn to face towards the sun?
Papercut
Well-known
Hi CK,
Please don't take offense at this response. It's not meant to be cheeky or dismissive, but to suggest that it's impossible for other people to give you the "right" answer and that you're better off experimenting (systematically) and making your own decision.
The real answer is, "It depends." This is because there is no "correct" reading for the situation you describe (or any other lighting situation). Rather, there are only readings and settings that will produce different renditions of the light. You have to specify what your intended rendition is before anyone can even begin to say which method will get close to your intended goal.
No matter what advice you get here in other replies, I'd recommend that the next time you are in similar conditions you should shoot a bunch of frames using different meterings (and intermediate settings too). Then look at the results and see how different exposure settings produce different renderings of the same light and framing. After doing that, you'll have a much better understanding that you can use in the future to make decisions about which reading method will produce the kind of rendering you want to make in that specific place/time.
PS You don't say whether you are using an incident or reflected meter. Metering procedure and readings are very different for each.
Please don't take offense at this response. It's not meant to be cheeky or dismissive, but to suggest that it's impossible for other people to give you the "right" answer and that you're better off experimenting (systematically) and making your own decision.
The real answer is, "It depends." This is because there is no "correct" reading for the situation you describe (or any other lighting situation). Rather, there are only readings and settings that will produce different renditions of the light. You have to specify what your intended rendition is before anyone can even begin to say which method will get close to your intended goal.
No matter what advice you get here in other replies, I'd recommend that the next time you are in similar conditions you should shoot a bunch of frames using different meterings (and intermediate settings too). Then look at the results and see how different exposure settings produce different renderings of the same light and framing. After doing that, you'll have a much better understanding that you can use in the future to make decisions about which reading method will produce the kind of rendering you want to make in that specific place/time.
PS You don't say whether you are using an incident or reflected meter. Metering procedure and readings are very different for each.
Captain Kidd
Well-known
No offense taken at all, I completely agree and testing is what I aim to do. And you’re right I should have mentioned, it’s an incident meter so facing it away from the sun, and towards the camera, when shooting towards the sun is what made me thing ‘hold on this has to be wrong’. I was wondering if most people change their setting or stick with what was indicated when taking a meter reading with your back to the sun, and the incident facing the sun.
retinax
Well-known
Papercut is right of course. I expect an interesting discussion to ensue.
I'll say that assuming you use an incident meter and want to make something like a portrait that is backlit, but you need normal exposure for the face, which would be in the shade, you should use an incident metering away from the sun. If the light meter is in the shade that should read about the same as one toward the sun and in the shade of your own body (is that what you described?).
I'll say that assuming you use an incident meter and want to make something like a portrait that is backlit, but you need normal exposure for the face, which would be in the shade, you should use an incident metering away from the sun. If the light meter is in the shade that should read about the same as one toward the sun and in the shade of your own body (is that what you described?).
retinax
Well-known
My above reply is a little cryptic, what I meant to say is yes, I mostly use a shadow reading (which I think is what you mean) for photos in all directions if there's anything of interest in the shadows, which mostly is the case. Exceptions are open, sunny landscapes without much shade at all and scenes so contrasty that I need to compromise on shadow detail to get enough highlight detail - rare with negative film.
Papercut
Well-known
CK,
Like retinax suggests, if I'm wanting to retain lots of detail in the shadow area, then I'll take an incident meter reading in the shadow (i.e., with my back to the sun, and my shadow falling over the meter sphere). That reading will put the shadows at middle grey and then I adjust either more or less light depending on whether I want the final rendering of the shadow to be lighter or darker.
In general when I'm shooting outdoors, I [ETA: INCIDENT] meter in the sun and then in shade and keep those two readings in mind until the overall light situation changes. Then when I go to make an exposure, I just decide what my intended rendering is for that scene and adjust one of the two basic readings to get my desired look.
Like retinax suggests, if I'm wanting to retain lots of detail in the shadow area, then I'll take an incident meter reading in the shadow (i.e., with my back to the sun, and my shadow falling over the meter sphere). That reading will put the shadows at middle grey and then I adjust either more or less light depending on whether I want the final rendering of the shadow to be lighter or darker.
In general when I'm shooting outdoors, I [ETA: INCIDENT] meter in the sun and then in shade and keep those two readings in mind until the overall light situation changes. Then when I go to make an exposure, I just decide what my intended rendering is for that scene and adjust one of the two basic readings to get my desired look.
MCTuomey
Veteran
Incident meters are designed to be read pointed at the light source for your main subject, meaning if the subject is in direct sun or shade, the meter's disc should be in the same light.
Reflective meters are designed opposite - to be read pointed at the main subject.
"Main subject" = the area which you want to expose at standard (mid or "18%" gray).
One way to get the concept down is to shoot into the sun with your subject facing the camera. Meter and shoot for three outcomes: your subject exposed at mid-gray, your subject exposed to the point of silhouette, your subject exposed to the point of heavily blown background highlights (which will likely overexpose the subject too). If you can do all three at will by metering and then adjusting the indicated reading, I think you'll have got it down well.
Reflective meters are designed opposite - to be read pointed at the main subject.
"Main subject" = the area which you want to expose at standard (mid or "18%" gray).
One way to get the concept down is to shoot into the sun with your subject facing the camera. Meter and shoot for three outcomes: your subject exposed at mid-gray, your subject exposed to the point of silhouette, your subject exposed to the point of heavily blown background highlights (which will likely overexpose the subject too). If you can do all three at will by metering and then adjusting the indicated reading, I think you'll have got it down well.
Captain Kidd
Well-known
In this case I’m not nterested in metering for the shadows, it’s what’s in the sunlight that I wish to expose correctly for, so even then, when shooting facing into the sun, I should take a light reading pointing the incident meter at the sun. This makes most sense to me, even though I feel I should always point the incident meter at the camera.
MCTuomey
Veteran
Hmm. So, if I'm shooting facing the sun and my subject (a person) is facing me (meaning subject's face is in shade and back is to the sun), and I point my incident meter at the sun and use the meter's reading, what kind of exposure do I think I'll get? I believe my subject's face and anterior, who is facing me and the camera with back to sun, will be underexposed. Majorly if the sun is bright, minorly if the sun is not bright.
General incident meter rule: point the disc at the light source which is also the main light of the part of your subject you wish to expose at standard.
Richard G
Veteran
For a near silhouette against the sunny backlight expose as per Sunny 16 or with your incident meter cone pointing towards the sun. Want to see who is the silhouette then open two to three stops or have the meter cone pointing towards your camera. I don’t think you need to waste a roll of film on this exercise.
Captain Kidd
Well-known
Thanks everyone, basically there wasn’t a subject in the sense of a single person I was photographing, I was standing in a park with my back to the sun, I point the incident meter to the camera and take a reading. If I turn around and now find myself facing the sun, it would be correct to use the same reading? To have what’s in the sunlight exposed the same?
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
I actually have a tutorial here on RFF for what you're asking about:
https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163706
https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163706
Papercut
Well-known
Finally we have the critical point: your intention. Yes, the light falling on the scene is the same and so if your intention is to render "the subject" the same, then the exposure would be the same. There's no need, in your example, to meter the scene again: the original metering of the sunlight would still apply since your intent (to render the sunlit portion normally) is the same. The light [ETA: falling on the subject] hasn't changed and neither has your intended rendering, so the exposure would be the same too.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
Now it is clear that you are using an incident meter, and want to photograph a scene that is backlit, and therefore illuminated by reflected skylight, and not by direct sunlight. So if you want to expose only for a subject that is wholly or partly lit by the reflected skylight, and you don't care about the background, which probably has areas such as sky or clouds that would require stopping down for correct exposure, then you would go with the incident reading. Then again, if you need to avoid blowing out those background areas, you would stop down a bit, just not so much as to underexpose the subject facing away from the sun. In other words, you need a compromise exposure. So if you stop down one stop, the subject that is in the shade will still be readable, and that will at least help the background out, a little. The subject will look a little dark, but that is OK, things in the shade ought to look darker than things in sunlight. Stopping down another half stop, maybe even a whole stop, should still keep the subject from going too dark, and helps the background a little more. Ultimately, how much of an adjustment you can make depends on the latitude of the film.
I myself will take both an incident and a reflected reading, and then decide which one to favor. If the incident says 1/125 at 5.6, and the reflected ays f/16, I might try 1/125 at 8 and a half. And bracket!
David Hughes
David Hughes
I wish I knew what happened here; it was a duplicate posting and - these days - can't be deleted. OTOH, I can at least explain it...
Regards, David
Regards, David
MCTuomey
Veteran
What Chris posted. Go there, and incidence be with you!
David Hughes
David Hughes
Talking about back lit subects and negative film only; I would either take an incident light reading from the subject and point the meter at the camera or else copy Olympus's method with the XA and XA3 etc and add (meaning open up) 1½ stops to the average exposure.
You can take an incident light reading to the camera and then an average reflected from the camera and think out the balance between the two but bracketing is a lot easier.
And, of course, there are spot meters; knowing what type of camera and meter would be a help answering this question...
Regards, David
You can take an incident light reading to the camera and then an average reflected from the camera and think out the balance between the two but bracketing is a lot easier.
And, of course, there are spot meters; knowing what type of camera and meter would be a help answering this question...
Regards, David
Steve M.
Veteran
You can make this as complicated or as simple as you wish. Whatever your subject is (unless it's snow or a black cat), you want to meter whatever light your subject is in. If there is a wide range of shadow and light in your subject matter, either meter in between the high and low places, or expose for what your main subject is and let the rest fall where it may. Usually, the ground is a middle area of exposure. Whatever you do, don't point the meter at the sun! That will give a false reading, you want to be metering your subject.
Normally,with portraits of black folk you will want to over expose 1/2 to 1 stop because the meter is set to 18% gray. If you have both white and black folks in a shot (along w/ all the shades in between), bracketing may be best. With today's films, unless you are shooting slides, it isn't that critical, and you will still get good results even if you are off a stop or two. If you are shooting digital, like slide film, you want to be more on the money because if you blow out the highlights they are gonna be gone for good.
Because I am naturally lazy and want the best exposure in the easiest and fastest manner, I use a camera w/ a spot meter and auto exposure. And I do not take multiple readings with it, I meter where my interest is and that is where the exposure stays.
Normally,with portraits of black folk you will want to over expose 1/2 to 1 stop because the meter is set to 18% gray. If you have both white and black folks in a shot (along w/ all the shades in between), bracketing may be best. With today's films, unless you are shooting slides, it isn't that critical, and you will still get good results even if you are off a stop or two. If you are shooting digital, like slide film, you want to be more on the money because if you blow out the highlights they are gonna be gone for good.
Because I am naturally lazy and want the best exposure in the easiest and fastest manner, I use a camera w/ a spot meter and auto exposure. And I do not take multiple readings with it, I meter where my interest is and that is where the exposure stays.
Ccoppola82
Well-known
What I usually do is aim my at the back of my hand so as to simulate a grey card. I take a spot reading off of that and then add one more stop of light to get my skin tone into zone 6. I’ve usually gotten good results this way. You will blow highlights if you do this in bright sun, so if film is being used, use a compensating development method to keep some highlights
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Bracket.
I tend to hold an incident meter to get the same light as the main subject I want exposed “correctly” and bracket if I’m worried that’s too much or little light for the rest of the scene.
I tend to hold an incident meter to get the same light as the main subject I want exposed “correctly” and bracket if I’m worried that’s too much or little light for the rest of the scene.