froyd
Veteran
After many years of PSE, I've decided to give LR a try and downloaded the LR5 public beta.
I'm looking for tutorials that offer a basic introduction to managing the workflow in LR, especially as it compares to PS or PSE.
I'm aware of the myriad of videos on YouTube and Adobe's website, so I'm looking for additional resources, especially those that focus not so much on how to use a particular tool or technique, but on how to "think" about images in LR (i.e. layers in PS vs non layer edits; library management; etc)
Here is an example of a simple intro I have found. It's a bit too basic for my need, but it's along the right lines:
http://www.mattstratton.com/tech-tips/introduction-to-lightroom#
I'm looking for tutorials that offer a basic introduction to managing the workflow in LR, especially as it compares to PS or PSE.
I'm aware of the myriad of videos on YouTube and Adobe's website, so I'm looking for additional resources, especially those that focus not so much on how to use a particular tool or technique, but on how to "think" about images in LR (i.e. layers in PS vs non layer edits; library management; etc)
Here is an example of a simple intro I have found. It's a bit too basic for my need, but it's along the right lines:
http://www.mattstratton.com/tech-tips/introduction-to-lightroom#
NicoM
Well-known
Lightroom is super easy to use. In terms of editing, the workflow is pretty much laid out for you. In the develop panel, you basically move down the options. You don't have to use all the settings but Adobe has developed it so that you move downwards through the adjustments.
froyd
Veteran
I find it confusing not to think of editing an image without having layers.
I I want to undo edit 5 out of 10, do I have to lose 6-10 as well? Can I single out that specific edit?
froyd
Veteran
OK spent another evening with the software and the big question is WHAT HAPPENS TO THE EDITED VERSION OF MY FILES? If I am working with file "7" and make a bunch of changes to it, the preview of that image in LR library reflects those changes. However, I don't have an option to save this edited version of image 7. In PS, I would have clicked "Save As" and found the edited version of the image stacked under the original version in the organizer. With file explorer, I would see both "file 7" and "file 7-edited". Using LR, file explorer only shows the original version of the image.
FA Limited
missing in action
lightroom is much more flexible because it is not saving different steps all the time as full files, instead you consider an output as an "Export", in the library view you click the files you want to save right click and go to Export and you can create different presets for Web etc.
if you want to do different modifications to the same file, like one color one b+w one for soft proofing, you can make virtual copies of the same image
i hope this makes sense...
if you want to do different modifications to the same file, like one color one b+w one for soft proofing, you can make virtual copies of the same image
i hope this makes sense...
lynnb
Veteran
I also use virtual copies to save differently processed versions of the same file
gavinlg
Veteran
So basically in lightroom you work with the raw or original file. Lightroom will tag the file with a little sidecar file (sometimes visible as an xmp file I think) which is like an editing guideline. So any edits made to the photo in lightroom are just applied to the aforementioned sidecar file, not to the original file itself. This is called non-destructive editing. The raw/original file is never touched. If you want to save a 'version' of the file with the edits performed in lightroom, you can 'export' the file to your specified location on the computer which will make a new version with the edits included.
If you want to open the file with the lightroom edits in photoshop, just right click the photo in the viewer, and select 'open with' and 'photoshop xx'. A screen will pop up and ask if you want to open the file without lightroom adjustments or the edited file. If you open the edited file it will make a copy in lightroom as a TIFF file and anything you perform in photoshop will be saved to that copy, not the original raw file.
Basically the idea of lightroom is that it manages the folders/structure of the files themselves by itself - you don't have to go into your computer folders and manage them. Any changes made to folder structures in lightrooms library are reflected on your computers folder structures. You can specify where lightroom keeps its 'library' in the preferences option.
If you want to make multiple versions of the same photo, you can make 'virtual copies' by right clicking the photo in the viewer, and clicking 'make virtual copy'. You can go back through the editing history and make a virtual copy from any editing point, and then revert back to the full edit on the original photo.
Hope that makes a little bit of sense - stick with it, and look up tutorials on youtube. As a management program, it's truly excellent and well worth getting your head around it.
user237428934
User deletion pending
If you want to have different versions of your image to be visible in the explorer all the time, then forget lightroom. Changes are only visible within LR unless you actively export a file with changes to disk.
user237428934
User deletion pending
If step 5 was a change in clarity for example, just turn the clarity slider back. If you delete step 5 in the history, then 6-10 are deleted also (when I remember correctly). I use LR a lot but never look at the edit-history.
ChrisN
Striving
As Lynn suggests, you can create as many virtual copies as you like, which are simply different processing treatments of the one original file, all visible in the LR grid view next to each other. And the original file (your "digital negative") remains unchanged. Grid view within Lightroom is the easiest form of explorer to use. If you really want to you could export a jpg (or tiff) file from each of the virtual copies, but you'd be taking up extra space on your hard disk for no good reason.
froyd
Veteran
THANKS to all! this is beginning to make much more sense. it really is a different approach from what I'm used to and most guides just jump in into "how to use" LR as supposed to how to think about LR.
So, as soon as I leave LR, all the edits to my images (that have not been exported as separate files) will be "gone", or better, not visible.
Should I be concerned about future-proofing my collection? I.e. once I switch to LR them I'm stuck to LR in perpetuity?
So, as soon as I leave LR, all the edits to my images (that have not been exported as separate files) will be "gone", or better, not visible.
Should I be concerned about future-proofing my collection? I.e. once I switch to LR them I'm stuck to LR in perpetuity?
ARB
Member
You might find the video guides by Jeff Schewe and Michael Reichmann, which are available at the Luminous Landscape website, useful. They offer a complete overview and make frequent reference to and comparison with Photoshop methods. The videos are not free but are extremely thorough -- without being pedantic.
Dan
Let's Sway
The edits you do are still "in" lightroom as they are contained in sidecar files, essentially a set of instructions that track edits to each image. One of the LR preferences you can set is to automatically have this editing info incorporated into each file's metadata.
Most importantly, make sure you are backing up the lightroom catalog on a regular basis, again this is an option you can set in preferences. Personally I have mine backup each time I exit the program. A very important concept to understand regarding backups is that the Lightroom catalog DOES NOT CONTAIN, NOR BACKUP YOUR ACTUAL PHOTO FILES! (did I emphasis this enough?) LR backups ONLY retain the info in the catalog itself, like edits, keywords, file location, etc.
froyd
Veteran
Sorry, Saul, I should have been clearer:
"So, as soon as I leave LR, all the edits to my images (that have not been exported as separate files) will be "gone", or better, not visible to any other program. "
If that's the case, it is a little scary! I'm getting cold feet at the thought of the eternal commitment to LR.
"So, as soon as I leave LR, all the edits to my images (that have not been exported as separate files) will be "gone", or better, not visible to any other program. "
If that's the case, it is a little scary! I'm getting cold feet at the thought of the eternal commitment to LR.
Dan
Let's Sway
Your edits are visible to other programs if those programs are looking at a file you exported from Lightroom. The export process asks you to choose a format (TIFF, PSD, JPEG, DNG) among other things, so any program that reads those formats will also correctly read your LR edited image.
Dan
Let's Sway
Eternal commitment to software -- damn, that does sound scary! But don't be concerned. If, in the future, some other program gets your attention and you dump LR, you would simply export (as full-size TIFFs) all your LR images from the catalog to your harddrive. Then those files could be accessed by your new program and you'd be good to go.
Think of Lightroom as a program that allows, and keeps records of, edits to your photos. The program in no way "has" or "contains" your image files.
Think of Lightroom as a program that allows, and keeps records of, edits to your photos. The program in no way "has" or "contains" your image files.
Duane Pandorf
Well-known
I'm sorry you're getting cold feet about LR. Maybe I can make it a little easier for you to understand.
The big question in your mind is what is really going on with my "original" file and the changes I've made with LR. In PSE, you had to save your changes to a "new" file before you quit the program, whether that file was a TIFF, JPG or even a PSD file. You now have two separate files on your computer to manage.
In LR, the edits you make are saved in a "database" as you make the changes that maintain a link to the file the edits belong to. Your edits never change the original file, meaning LR does non-destructive edits keeping your original file whether RAW or JPG as original.
Once you're done editing in LR and you want to send the "edited" version of your image to an online printing service, email, website etc, you use LR's export command or publish services. That is when LR will actually create another file from edited version of your original. The original file is untouched.
I would highly recommend spending the money to watch George Jardine's Lightroom Library Workflow and Digital Photo Library Management series and then his Lightroom Develop Module and Digital Photo Processing.
George Jardine worked at Adobe as an evangelist with the Lightroom project, he knows Lightroom.
Particular
a.k.a. CNNY, disassembler
As has been mentioned, LR saves all your adjustments in a sidecar file. If your files are raw files, and you want to open them in photoshop after (theoretically) ditching LR, PS will open the file in adobe camera raw first (ACR) with all the settings that you applied in LR.
If you convert your proprietary raw file to DNG, it will bind in the sidecar so you don't have two separate files. All your settings will be saved in the DNG file and will be applied in ACR as mentioned above. This kind of workflow could make sense if your version of PS is older and doesn't support your new camera. It will still be able to open the DNG.
As for eternal commitments...Nothing lasts for ever. LR is a really solid program with well thought out workflow. It is not going anywhere soon.
Duane Pandorf
Well-known
I misunderstand your concern and reread your post quoted above. Inside Lightroom you can use another application to edit the image files Lightroom is managing. In Lightroom's preference panel under External Editing you can select what external program Lightroom would send the image to, like PSE.
As an example, lets say you have an image that you've corrected in Lightroom but need the power of another application to finish how you want the image to look like.
From Lightroom you'd select the image and use the Edit In command to select your external application. In that application you'd make you final edits and in that application you would save the file like you do now in PSE. The new saved file is then added to Lightroom's Catalog. Its now a separate file from your original but Lightroom catalogs that file and keeps it next to the original file in its catalog.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Froyd: Don't feel bad. While 99% love LR, I am in the other 1%. I have 12 years of using Photoshop and 12 years of images organized into subdirectories by topic.
While I cannot search for all the images I ever shot on a Tuesday with a Zeiss 28mm lens set at f5.6, that is not important to me. But I can find all the select images I shot in the Mississippi Delta, including the ones before LR existed, in one place. And all the related non image files, like Word docs, are there as well.
Maybe I am just an old fart who lives in the past. But I spend a lot of time editing up front to select the very best photos and never go back to the massive volumes of those that were not selected. I find that once you start using LR, you are making a commitment to the program unless you export your select images in a universal file format like a TIF or JPG (which I do)
While I cannot search for all the images I ever shot on a Tuesday with a Zeiss 28mm lens set at f5.6, that is not important to me. But I can find all the select images I shot in the Mississippi Delta, including the ones before LR existed, in one place. And all the related non image files, like Word docs, are there as well.
Maybe I am just an old fart who lives in the past. But I spend a lot of time editing up front to select the very best photos and never go back to the massive volumes of those that were not selected. I find that once you start using LR, you are making a commitment to the program unless you export your select images in a universal file format like a TIF or JPG (which I do)