Pherdinand
the snow must go on
I got today a few Paterson developing tanks (model II universal and 35mm).
There was also a roll of film included on one of the reels
Well, i said cool, and i took it out and tried to load it back to practice.
The first few rounds went fine, then it started to get harder and harder. Just after midway it got stuck and started to make squeeking sounds . When i took the film out, the leader was somewhat damaged.
I tried with the other reels. The universal one has small balls, the 35mm one does not.
Same happened with all of the reels.
Is there a trick to do this easily? I'm a bit worried, esp. since I will have to do this in the dark!
I guess you should NOT use your finger to keep the film in place and push it in, cos then you leave fingerprints on it...right?
thanks
There was also a roll of film included on one of the reels
Well, i said cool, and i took it out and tried to load it back to practice.
The first few rounds went fine, then it started to get harder and harder. Just after midway it got stuck and started to make squeeking sounds . When i took the film out, the leader was somewhat damaged.
I tried with the other reels. The universal one has small balls, the 35mm one does not.
Same happened with all of the reels.
Is there a trick to do this easily? I'm a bit worried, esp. since I will have to do this in the dark!
I guess you should NOT use your finger to keep the film in place and push it in, cos then you leave fingerprints on it...right?
thanks
EmilGil
Well-known
Make sure the reels (and film) are completely dry or the film will get stuck. If the film still sticks to the reels, the reels might be worn out (quite common with older ones)
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
They are completely dry (just out of the mailing box).
They are indeed worn-out. Might that be the reason? I would have thought the opposite!
They are indeed worn-out. Might that be the reason? I would have thought the opposite!
gareth
Established
First off, are they really plastic, and how old are they?
I've got some old plastic ones from the 50 or 60's and they are a bugger to load. I've also got a few modern plastic ones that are a bit better but still a bit of a pain.
I now only use Patterson nylon reels, and they are brilliant, a breeze to load.
Try to cut the leader across the holes, not between them, you will be able to feel them in the dark. It's not essential, but it makes getting the leader onto the reel easier. If you are having to force the leader onto the reel, it may be because you have not cut across the holes And if you are forcing it, you will be damaging it and eventually as you wind the film on the leader will start to stick.
If the film jumps out of the guides a wee bit during loading, just gently push it back in with your fingers, just try to push it at the edges, finger prints don't often do any harm but they are best avoided.
I've got some old plastic ones from the 50 or 60's and they are a bugger to load. I've also got a few modern plastic ones that are a bit better but still a bit of a pain.
I now only use Patterson nylon reels, and they are brilliant, a breeze to load.
Try to cut the leader across the holes, not between them, you will be able to feel them in the dark. It's not essential, but it makes getting the leader onto the reel easier. If you are having to force the leader onto the reel, it may be because you have not cut across the holes And if you are forcing it, you will be damaging it and eventually as you wind the film on the leader will start to stick.
If the film jumps out of the guides a wee bit during loading, just gently push it back in with your fingers, just try to push it at the edges, finger prints don't often do any harm but they are best avoided.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
I don't know if they are plastic, technically, or some other organic material
They are NOT the white-ish reels that sometimes I see in e-bay advertisments but the translucent ones. Came with Paterson model II tanks. Might be nylon, but some sort of hard nylon. I cannot properly date them but they look like from the eighties.
The film leader is nicely cut, not across the holes but between. It is easy to get it on, and wind 2-3 turns, then it gets harder and harder. I checked,there's no dirt damage or obstruction visible on the spirals.
The "practice" film is a C41 one, but I do not expect this to make any difference.
Thanks.
They are NOT the white-ish reels that sometimes I see in e-bay advertisments but the translucent ones. Came with Paterson model II tanks. Might be nylon, but some sort of hard nylon. I cannot properly date them but they look like from the eighties.
The film leader is nicely cut, not across the holes but between. It is easy to get it on, and wind 2-3 turns, then it gets harder and harder. I checked,there's no dirt damage or obstruction visible on the spirals.
The "practice" film is a C41 one, but I do not expect this to make any difference.
Thanks.
gareth
Established
Cut across the holes, not between them.
Pop out and buy a brand new Patterson reel, I suspect that once you try a modern Patterson nylon reel you will bin those old ones.
Pop out and buy a brand new Patterson reel, I suspect that once you try a modern Patterson nylon reel you will bin those old ones.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
across? meaning that the edges will have the sharp half-holes sticking out??
I will consider a new reel, indeed.
I will consider a new reel, indeed.
popstar
Well-known
Gareth - Interesting how we all learn to load reels. I was taught to cut between holes, but then make small 45-degree angle cuts to aid in the loading. I can see how cutting across holes might work...
In any case, new reels do make a difference. It's not bad to have older reels as backup or for practice, but a new reel might be just the thing!
In any case, new reels do make a difference. It's not bad to have older reels as backup or for practice, but a new reel might be just the thing!
EmilGil
Well-known
I don't know why the films stick, maybe it's some kind of protective outer layer on the plastic that has been worn off?
I usually cut the film between the holes in a slightly rounded way that makes it a piece of cake to get the leader onto the reel (just rounding the corners a little).
I usually cut the film between the holes in a slightly rounded way that makes it a piece of cake to get the leader onto the reel (just rounding the corners a little).
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Oh another question... Loading should be emulsion side in or out? Or does it matter at all?
The film is cut between the holes but in a trapezoidal shape, thus it's not flat end. It is easy to get it ON the reel and START winding it.
The film is cut between the holes but in a trapezoidal shape, thus it's not flat end. It is easy to get it ON the reel and START winding it.
Solinar
Analog Preferred
The emulsion side should be in. That allows the curvature of the film to fit more naturally into the reel. In addition to cutting between the sprocket holes, I cut a very small angled notch to each corner. All of which is done in total darkness.
After your third roll of film - loading the reel in total darkness will become second nature. Good luck!
After your third roll of film - loading the reel in total darkness will become second nature. Good luck!
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Let me add that on the Patterson reels - when the roll of 36 seems to get tight or stuck - the reels can be independently rotated - which self loads the film on the spiral. The reason I notch a very small angled cut to each corner of the leader is to prevent this tightening from occurring.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
OK
The reels look like THIS: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Paterson-Majo...6QQihZ018QQcategoryZ29993QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
The tanks as well, but without the "MAJOR E" inscription.
The reels look like THIS: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Paterson-Majo...6QQihZ018QQcategoryZ29993QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
The tanks as well, but without the "MAJOR E" inscription.
gareth
Established
Yup that looks like the same old junk I had. They are murder compared to modern reels. Hope you didn't waste any money on this stuff.
ChrisPlatt
Thread Killer
FWIW with any type of reel, plastic or steel, you will have
fewer mishaps loading 24-exposure rolls, rather than 36...
Chris
fewer mishaps loading 24-exposure rolls, rather than 36...
Chris
gareth
Established
With good reals you shouldn't have any problems loading 36 exposure film.
dagabel
Established
Hey Pherdinand,
I just started developing my own film a couple of months ago, and I have a new Patterson-type reel. It works OK with practice for me, but I'm sorely tempted to go with one of the Samigon/AP Photo plastic reels, recommended by RFF member Kaiyen (Alan) on his website. They have a much larger lip where you initially feed in the film, and it looks like it might work much better.
Duane
I just started developing my own film a couple of months ago, and I have a new Patterson-type reel. It works OK with practice for me, but I'm sorely tempted to go with one of the Samigon/AP Photo plastic reels, recommended by RFF member Kaiyen (Alan) on his website. They have a much larger lip where you initially feed in the film, and it looks like it might work much better.
Duane
Xmas
Veteran
I cut between and chamfer 45 degrees off corners if I can manage it.
Before you discard old spiral - using an old toothbrush and tooth paste scrub out the spiral grooves. You are attempting to remove any glue style residue from years of geletine travel. Brush and rinse off the tooth paste. Dry reel and try again. Tooth paste is a mild abrasive...
A new reel is useful as a spare a multi tank is really convenient... I use two 5x multis at a time.
Noel
Noel oops attack of Xmas spirit
Before you discard old spiral - using an old toothbrush and tooth paste scrub out the spiral grooves. You are attempting to remove any glue style residue from years of geletine travel. Brush and rinse off the tooth paste. Dry reel and try again. Tooth paste is a mild abrasive...
A new reel is useful as a spare a multi tank is really convenient... I use two 5x multis at a time.
Noel
Noel oops attack of Xmas spirit
40oz
...
I would agree that cutting the corners off the film greatly improves matters. It isn't just getting it started - I've put creases in a few films because I forgot to trim the corners and the film got jammed after a few revolutions, requiring rather brutal measures to free it and start over. That has never happened when I trim the corners. In fact, as long as I trim the conrers, I've never had a problem loading film on dry plastic reels, even 36 exposure rolls.
gareth
Established
Don't get too hung up on where exactly you get the cut. Getting a good modern Patterson nylon reel is what will really to help you here.
Here's my method for what it's worth.
Using the Ilford Can opener, I open up the can. I slide the film on it's roller out the side (watch it doesn't spring out all over the place). I then cut the leader off, I try to cut it across the holes, but often I miss, so it doesn't matter that much where you cut it. I don't bother cutting chamfers or anything.
I then tighten the film up a bit on the roller, before sliding it back into the can with the end sticking out of the can.
I then pull out a small section of film and feed it onto the reel. If it pushes on, then fine, if it doesn't, I slide it up to the take up area and pull it through from behind (ie two fingers on the film and pull it sharply through.
If it doesn't want to go, which sometimes happens and it snags or creases, just pick up the scissors and cut it again.
Then I pull out a length of film and carefully place the can between my knees (watch it doesn't curl up at this point, it's a bummer when that happens). My hands are now up in the air with the reel, and I work my way back down to the can (getting the angle right on the take up bit will stop it popping out, you'll find that angle after a while). If the film pops out of the take up, just gently push it back in, it should snap back in OK, then continue.
I then pull out the next bit and repeat. It's all over in a minute or two and it's on to the next one.
I do this all sitting in ma wee chair in the darkroom.
If it all turns to **** and you have a pile of curled up film in front of you in the dark. Well shout **** three times, but don’t panic, just work slowly to sort it out. You may have to cut it in half and load it over two reels. But you can and will save it.
Note that everybody finds their own wee version of loading reels. Once you have it sussed you do it pretty much on auto pilot.
Here's my method for what it's worth.
Using the Ilford Can opener, I open up the can. I slide the film on it's roller out the side (watch it doesn't spring out all over the place). I then cut the leader off, I try to cut it across the holes, but often I miss, so it doesn't matter that much where you cut it. I don't bother cutting chamfers or anything.
I then tighten the film up a bit on the roller, before sliding it back into the can with the end sticking out of the can.
I then pull out a small section of film and feed it onto the reel. If it pushes on, then fine, if it doesn't, I slide it up to the take up area and pull it through from behind (ie two fingers on the film and pull it sharply through.
If it doesn't want to go, which sometimes happens and it snags or creases, just pick up the scissors and cut it again.
Then I pull out a length of film and carefully place the can between my knees (watch it doesn't curl up at this point, it's a bummer when that happens). My hands are now up in the air with the reel, and I work my way back down to the can (getting the angle right on the take up bit will stop it popping out, you'll find that angle after a while). If the film pops out of the take up, just gently push it back in, it should snap back in OK, then continue.
I then pull out the next bit and repeat. It's all over in a minute or two and it's on to the next one.
I do this all sitting in ma wee chair in the darkroom.
If it all turns to **** and you have a pile of curled up film in front of you in the dark. Well shout **** three times, but don’t panic, just work slowly to sort it out. You may have to cut it in half and load it over two reels. But you can and will save it.
Note that everybody finds their own wee version of loading reels. Once you have it sussed you do it pretty much on auto pilot.