London Riots

sevo said:
That is a very naive and dangerous notion. There are no consequences of an action or belief which are not a matter of policy and politics.
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Every act is a political act.

It's surprising how many people refuse to accept this.

(Ade-oh appears to. But I have my doubts about the newspapers he reads)

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
(Ade-oh appears to. But I have my doubts about the newspapers he reads)
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For the avoidance of doubt, I regularly read the Times, the Telegraph, the Guardian, the Financial Times, the Economist, the Spectator, the New Statesman, the New Scientist and Standpoint; I also write for - most of - them.
 
Ade-oh said:
Alternatively: leftist welfarism has, for the last fifty years, systematically infantilised the socially and economically disadvantaged, and has attempted to relieve them of any sense of responsibility for their current plight and their future existence. This has left many members of these groups prone to making stupid, irresponsible choices, reassured by the knowledge that those choices will have little real impact on their lives, no matter how much damage they do to others. Four year sentences for those seeking to mobilise violence using social media will have the effect of focusing their minds, and the minds of those who are thinking like them, on the consequences of their actions.
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What utterly nonsense! And simplyfied view of the world. Ha, ha!
 
Ade-oh said:
Alternatively: leftist welfarism has, for the last fifty years, systematically infantilised the socially and economically disadvantaged, and has attempted to relieve them of any sense of responsibility for their current plight and their future existence. This has left many members of these groups prone to making stupid, irresponsible choices, reassured by the knowledge that those choices will have little real impact on their lives, no matter how much damage they do to others. Four year sentences for those seeking to mobilise violence using social media will have the effect of focusing their minds, and the minds of those who are thinking like them, on the consequences of their actions.
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What utterly nonsense! And naive perseption of the world. Ha, ha!
 
Olsen said:
What utterly nonsense! And naive perseption of the world. Ha, ha!
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Seen from here, the "personal responsibility" meme that is so popular in conservative circles is simply a device to give conservatives cover for wanting to escape responsibility for their own actions, or, more likely, lack of action.

Much, if not all, of contemporary conservatism seems to be just that: Intellectual scaffolding offering comfort for and justification of individual bias and selfishness.
 
Ade-oh said:
For the avoidance of doubt, I regularly read the Times, the Telegraph, the Guardian, the Financial Times, the Economist, the Spectator, the New Statesman, the New Scientist and Standpoint; I also write for - most of - them.
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What a lot of bull...! Ha, ha!
 
wgerrard said:
Seen from here, the "personal responsibility" meme that is so popular in conservative circles is simply a device to give conservatives cover for wanting to escape responsibility for their own actions, or, more likely, lack of action.

Much, if not all, of contemporary conservatism seems to be just that: Intellectual scaffolding offering comfort for and justification of individual bias and selfishness.
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Well, I don't actually know where you are but, as it happens, I'm part of that body of people broadly referred to as 'community activists' within an area of inner London that was affected by the disturbances. I think it's marvellous that you and Olsen - all the way from grittily urban Norway - are ready to help us sort it all out, and I look forward to hearing your ideas in detail.:rolleyes:
 
alistair.o said:
As you are well aware I do not hold to the same thoughts as you but do I have respect for you. The above remark is not what I would expect from you Ade-oh though. Is it an off moment/day?
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Actually, I thought it was a calm and measured riposte to 'Olsen's' comment... you should have seen the word I originally typed.
 
Ade-oh said:
Well, I don't actually know where you are but, as it happens, I'm part of that body of people broadly referred to as 'community activists' within an area of inner London that was affected by the disturbances. I think it's marvellous that you and Olsen - all the way from grittily urban Norway - are ready to help us sort it all out, and I look forward to hearing your ideas in detail.:rolleyes:
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Well, others can speak for themselves. I'll stand by my statement as it pertains to conservatism in this country, which is now something of a dark perversion of what it was 50 years ago. I suspect conservatism in the UK has not succumbed to the desire to replace reality with a few bad books by Ayn Rand. I'm tired of right-wing politicians passing laws that damage people, and then washing their hands of it all with that "personal responsibility" gambit. E.g., if you need $250,000 to pay for cancer treatment when you're 65, it was your "personal responsibility" to stash that money away when you were 35. If you didn't, tough.
 
wgerrard said:
I suspect conservatism in the UK has not succumbed to the desire to replace reality with a few bad books by Ayn Rand...
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I am a conservative but I think we would agree about Ayn Rand... utopians of both the left and right ought to be ignored.
 
Ade-oh said:
Alternatively: leftist welfarism has, for the last fifty years, systematically infantilised the socially and economically disadvantaged, and has attempted to relieve them of any sense of responsibility for their current plight and their future existence. This has left many members of these groups prone to making stupid, irresponsible choices, reassured by the knowledge that those choices will have little real impact on their lives, no matter how much damage they do to others.
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I live in a wellfare state: Norway. I can refer to several other wellfare states that proves that you are wrong: Denmark, Sweden and Finland. I cant' see any poor people around me making iresponsible choices. - I can hardly see any poor people at all....

Do you have any examples or proofs of your standpoint?

We live in a time where the financial world has been 'relieved of any responsibility for their plight and their future existance'. It has left them prone to 'making stupid, irresponsible choices' -we all have to pay for. The farther down you are on the income ladder; be sure you will be among the hardest hit byt the mistakes of the financial world.
 
Spoks said:
I live in a wellfare state: Norway. I can refer to several other wellfare states that proves that you are wrong: Denmark, Sweden and Finland. I cant' see any poor people around me making iresponsible choices. - I can hardly see any poor people at all....

Do you have any examples or proofs of your standpoint?

We live in a time where the financial world has been 'relieved of any responsibility for their plight and their future existance'. It has left them prone to 'making stupid, irresponsible choices' -we all have to pay for. The farther down you are on the income ladder; be sure you will be among the hardest hit byt the mistakes of the financial world.
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Who needs proof?

As long as you can afford two houses,who cares about those who can't afford one? They're obviously ne'er-do-wells who aren't working hard enough. Never mind minor factors such as accidents of birth, inheritance or pure luck.

Have you not encountered the 'self evident truth' that the way to make the rich work harder is to pay them proportionately more and more, while the way to make the poor work harder is to pay them proportionately less and less? "Proportionately", that is, compared with median incomes.

Note for the hard of thinking: 'irony' does not mean 'ferrous'.

Cheers,

R. (who owns only one house, through a combination of luck and judgement)
 
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