Looking at an M4-P vs M6 - What do you think?

[andrew00]

Hey, I'm looking at getting either an M4/M4-P and an M6, wondered if anyone could chip in. Also considering a Zeiss Ikon incidentally.

- Looking at using a 35mm lens, prob a Summilux Pre-ASPH. Might want to go wider (21-28mm) down the line
- I'm left eyed so am wondering if the one port on the back of the M6 vs two on the M4 might be better for not poking me in the face
- I will need to meter, but am wondering if the M4-P + VC II meter might be easier than the M6 meter aka less faffing with the camera to the eye.

What do you think?

 

[jordan.dickinson]

I don't think you can go wrong really, but in my opinion, the M6 is a great camera and tons and tons of us here use em because of it's usability. On the flipside, the M4-P and particularly the M4 (in my opinion) could be a great option using a VC meter, but keep in mind that you'll be spending roughly about the same amount of $$$ for the M4-P + meter vs. an M6. After that, I think most of it is aesthetics and whether or not metering in camera will be less annoying than carrying an external meter. I do own a VC II for my M4, but I'm trying to ween myself off of it and use Sunny 16 and repetition. The good part about this eventual transition is never having to bring a meter along, and with a lot more practice, I'll never need batteries...just film and a camera.

Either way, you'll be super happy, so not to worry.

 

[Shac]

I'd agree with Jordan, in fact I'd go further and suggest a late model M6 (not TTL).
But whichever you choose, you'll enjoy the camera

 

[Godfrey]

I've owned and used M4, M4-2, M4-P, M6, and M6TTL.

Of them all, the one I preferred and have now is a first production run M4-2 because of its simpler frame lines: 35, 50, 90, 135 like the M4. For anything wider, I either guess framing using the full viewfinder disregarding the frame lines, or clip on an accessory optical finder.

Much as I liked the M6 meter, I find I prefer to use an incident hand-held meter most of the time, or guesstimate using a metering app on the iPhone to determine a baseline. No LED in the viewfinder, etc.

G

 

[agoglanian]

I'm currently an M2 user (and M240) and I have a strong preference for the frame lines in the M2 personally (especially for 35mm lenses). However, there is a particular M4-P that's on my radar that's beat to hell cosmetically, but supposedly in spot-on mechanical condition. I like that the earlier M4-P bodies had frame lines closer to that of my M2, but I'm now a 28/50mm shooter which is why I'm even considering such a thing.

I've tried M6 bodies in the past and like them just fine, I'd buy one in a second if I found one for a good price, but with film, I generally don't feel like I need a meter. I just figure out a base exposure and go from there, and I've yet to really be disappointed with any results.

I realize my answer doesn't really help you swing one way or the other, but what I hope that it does for you is let you know that you can't make a wrong choice in this decision. You win either way 🙂

 

[kxl]

All I know is that chrome big letter M6 that Dave has for sale in the RFF classifieds is mighty tempting... 😉

 

[Fraser]

I have an m4p at the moment but for the only reason it was cheap, I'm surprised how close the cost between m4p and m6 is getting. I would just go for an m6 if you don't like the meter you can always take the battery out.

 

[trip-xa]

I had an M4-P and considered exactly what you are considering. I was holding a beautiful M6 in my hand at a shop when an M2 caught my eye (literally and after looking through the viewfinder). The M2 really is a wonderful camera. I mostly use a 35mm lens, but love the framelines when I use a 50mm and it is equally great for the Color Skopar 21mm with the external VF. I bought a Polaris meter and mostly use incident metering. I also use sunny 16 and my iphone meter app sometimes. Just a thought.

 

[BLKRCAT]

I run an M4 with a VCII and an M5. Here's my thoughts.

The M5 and M6 both require you to raise the camera to your eye to meter so in this regard I'll think of them the same.

The M4 is stealthier with the VCII meter than the M5. You don't have to bring the camera to your eye to meter, which means you can shoot faster. Just frame focus and shoot, if you are shooting hyperfocal it's even faster.

Now why do I prefer my M5 to the M4? Because of the meter. Let me explain. The VCII, while it is a good meter doesn't always give me much confidence. It suffers from the same problems that most meters have in backlit situations or if there are brighter objects obscuring a frame throwing your reading. It's not entirely fool proof and you don't always know what its doing or seeing.

This is why I prefer the spot meter in the M5. You can evaluate a scene and get a very accurate exposure yourself. Personally I like this control.

I have a good understanding of how to meter in my head so in the day time I rarely use the meter in the M5 anyways. But in tricky situations or at night or indoors it's a great option to have. Likewise, the VCII performs ok indoors but not very well at night.

Now take this all with a grain of salt, if you are shooting Tri-X or any other BW film 95% of the time they have enough latitude to smooth over any real metering errors. 1 or 2 stops should be ok. Shooting chrome or any weirdo films like kodalith or copy films (if you are into shooting that stuff) might require a little more precision but in the end you're shooting with a leica. They won't give "perfect" exposure.

 

[jordan.dickinson]

One more thought from me, and I don't know if many or anyone does this, but I usually carry my VC II meter in my pocket and meter sidewalks or grass or something neutral. Then I just make appropriate adjustments as I move and meter again if light changes drastically or I'm out all day I prefer this method, rather than attached to the hot shoe. In any case, I find that I don't meter each shot and shoot more of a series of shot based on a "recent" metering value. Of course, if you need precise metering, a higher quality handheld metering might make useless the M6's internal as well as the VCII. Just a thought, and again to the OP, you really can't go wrong either way. Alot of people are discussing the M2 above, and I do love the M2, having owned more than one, but between the M4/M4-P/M6, you'll be happy no matter what.

My vote...M4 with VCII in pocket.

A buttery smooth mechanically crisp M4 is really an amazing thing.

 

[jordan.dickinson]

The other thing I just realized is you mentioned a 35mm lens for normal everyday use. I wear glasses, and ended up buying an M6 TTL .58X. I found this to be a dramatic improvement for shooting 35mm lenses myself and really have trouble otherwise. However, I still can manage with the normal magnification finders and others may be fine shooting 35mm with a little looking around in .72x. Just something to consider if you like 35mm + wider and wear glasses.

 

[mdarnton]

I use a lot of wides, so for me anything I had to use the accessory shoe for other than a finder wouldn't work, so given your need for a meter, I'd take the M6. However, I don't use a meter at all, so my M4s are fine for me. Having the 28mm finder sure would be nice, but I don't think I want to give up magnification to get it. Too bad Leica never made something like the Nikon SP. :-(

 

[BLKRCAT]

A buttery smooth mechanically crisp M4 is really an amazing thing.

this is so true.

 

[Robert Lai]

Consider the Leica MR-4 meter

Consider the Leica MR-4 meter

If you go with the M3 / M2 / M4 and M4-variant route, consider the Leica MR-4 meter. The reason the shutter speed dials on these cameras are so small is that they were meant to couple to the dial of the MR meters. With these meters onboard, you get a nice wide shutter speed dial that projects beyond the camera, like the dial of the M5.

Furthermore, the meter has the same angle of view as a 90mm lens. So, you can use the frameline previewer to allow you to do a "fat spot" metering. You do have to lower the camera in order to read the f/stop marking on the meter. However, you normally do this once, and only repeat if the lighting changes.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

If it is black, doesn't matter. Meter, just get handheld. After sometime you'll be meterless in common situation and will need to meter low incident light only.
35 mm lens you want is great one. 28 is too close to it, 21 is had to work with, 25 is good and special. 35 you'll be taking it from outside. 24-25 at the inner space.
Go get it!
Ko.

 

[MCTuomey]

depends on how you want to shoot. they're all good.

after shooting meterless with an M4-2, then with an M4-P (wanted 28 framelines), i picked up a very nice M6ttl. nice to have an in-camera meter for changing light. i agree that the diodes are distracting at first, but i'm fine with them now.

 

[Gary Sandhu]

They are both nice just m6 is newer

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

One more thought from me, and I don't know if many or anyone does this, but I usually carry my VC II meter in my pocket and meter sidewalks or grass or something neutral.

I did that too, when I had an M4-P and VCII. Now I've got an M6 and admit that I prefer the old method. BUT I also prefer my current M6 to my old M4-P, purely for feel. I think it's a crapshoot. If you find an example of one of the models that you really like, keep it and don't look back...

 

[robur]

The same works for me. I carry the VCII in my pocket and use it when I`m going to take a photo.
About the Leicas I own both and I prefer my M4-P because it`s the smoothest Leica I've used.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

I would advise not only to look at the meter, but also compare their viewfinders; but I like the viewfinder of the M6 and M7 better since they are brighter.