brian steinberger
Established
I'm looking for a smallish 6x7 or 6x9 roll film view camera. A RF on it would be nice, and an eye finder would be nice to eliminate need to a dark cloth. Basically I'd like a MF camera with movements.
One that looks promising is the Horseman VH-R. The Fuji 6x8 looks too big.
Suggestions? Recommendations?
One that looks promising is the Horseman VH-R. The Fuji 6x8 looks too big.
Suggestions? Recommendations?
venchka
Veteran
Have looked at the Baby Graphics and a roll film back?
Wayne
Wayne
Particular
a.k.a. CNNY, disassembler
The Linhof Technika IV 6x9 is similar to the Horseman. The Technika 23 is very slik, but expensive. I use a Technika 70 which has a wonderful large combined viewfinder and rangefinder with accurate parallax corrected framelines. The viewfinder does add to the bulk as does the grip. The rollex film backs on these are great, but heavy.
If you mainly want to shoot handheld, why not get a 2x3 speed/crown graphic. They are very lightweight.
If you mainly want to shoot handheld, why not get a 2x3 speed/crown graphic. They are very lightweight.
venchka
Veteran
In use as a field camera with movements, there is very little extra work involved with a 4x5 camera and roll film back. Selection in 4x5 is much better. The range of lenses is far greater. You will also have the ability to use one of the really cooll 6x6/6x7/6x9/6x12 backs. 4 formats. One back.
Otherwise, shop for a Fuji 6x9 rangefinder camera.
Wayne
Otherwise, shop for a Fuji 6x9 rangefinder camera.
Wayne
x-ray
Veteran
Just sold a beautiful Technika V 2x3 and eight lens boards with roll back and reflex viewer.
I had the Technika 70 in the 70's and it's great as is the V. Three versions of the V were made. All are great. Built like a tank and will last forever. Silky is the word.
If you want tomething to work off of a tripod look at the Technikardan 23. That's what I use now. it fold to a tiny package and will work with a 300mm lens plus uses regular technika boards.
If you need a lens I'm trying to sell a mint- 100 f2.8 Planar that came off of the V. NICE!!!
brian steinberger
Established
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I'm not so much looking to just do handheld work, that's just kinda an added bonus. It will most likely be used on a tripod to get use out of the movements. I had a 4x5 camera in the past and just recently sold it. I didn't like dealing with sheets. The idea of rolls in much nicer to me as I don't have an enlarger for 4x5 anymore either. So ideally, 6x7 or 6x9 to keep the camera smaller than a 4x5 with some good movements, a rotating back, and a field camera style. I checked out the Technikardan 23 and it's a monorail camera.
Particular
a.k.a. CNNY, disassembler
The reasoning I had for getting the Technika 70 is similar to yours. I also have a 4x5 Technika IV that was not getting enough use mainly because it was too heavy and cumbersome to take out regularly. As well as the cost of the film as I wanted to shoot color.
While I like it a lot the truth is that the Technika 70 is not that much more compact than the 4x5 mainly because of the addition of the viewfinder, grip as well as the film back being bulky.
I also wanted to keep the option of movements. The limitations that the Technika (or any field camera) has with wide lenses is even more so with the smaller Technikas. For complex architectural wide shots obviously the Technikardan is the best choice followed by the 4x5 (even when using it just with 120 film). If you have a need for this kind of use then Venchka's suggestion makes a lot of sense. However for the occasional moderate wide angle adjustments, and if you are mainly using normal or longer lenses then any of the 6x9 Technikas or similar like the Horseman will do very nicely.
I have the Technika set up for 58mm, 80mm and 180mm lenses, which are all cammed with the rangefinder. I would say I use them about equally, mostly handheld. On a tripod the 58mm only permits a small amount of rise, and of course any tilt or swing I can get out of the back, but it is fairly limiting. The longer lenses can move freely.
While I like it a lot the truth is that the Technika 70 is not that much more compact than the 4x5 mainly because of the addition of the viewfinder, grip as well as the film back being bulky.
I also wanted to keep the option of movements. The limitations that the Technika (or any field camera) has with wide lenses is even more so with the smaller Technikas. For complex architectural wide shots obviously the Technikardan is the best choice followed by the 4x5 (even when using it just with 120 film). If you have a need for this kind of use then Venchka's suggestion makes a lot of sense. However for the occasional moderate wide angle adjustments, and if you are mainly using normal or longer lenses then any of the 6x9 Technikas or similar like the Horseman will do very nicely.
I have the Technika set up for 58mm, 80mm and 180mm lenses, which are all cammed with the rangefinder. I would say I use them about equally, mostly handheld. On a tripod the 58mm only permits a small amount of rise, and of course any tilt or swing I can get out of the back, but it is fairly limiting. The longer lenses can move freely.
ChrisN
Striving
I've had a long-time hankering for a Plaubel Makina Proshift 69W but was never able to find one I could afford. I settled for a Fuji GSW690 6x9 with the 65mm lens.
Particular
a.k.a. CNNY, disassembler
The Proshift is very cool indeed. It is a great design which lets you see the amount of shift in the viewfinder. It is very wide though and because of that perhaps not for everybody. It also has no rangefinder.
Mablo
Well-known
I had a chance to fondle a Plaubel Makina III on the other day, the German made predecessor of the Makina 67. It makes 6x9 size negs but the camera body is surprisingly small. I'd say about the size of a Nikon F100. You have a rangefinder for 100mm lens and ground glass for other FLs. No movements though.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
There was a Horseman VH-R in the classifieds last week. No connection to (fellow-Dutch) seller, just sayin'.
I had a Horseman Press 970, eventually fixed the gone-bad RF myself and it was a joy to use, but I went the Rolleiflex way.
I had a Horseman Press 970, eventually fixed the gone-bad RF myself and it was a joy to use, but I went the Rolleiflex way.
skibeerr
Well-known
+1 on the vh-r in the classifieds, it comes with a 6X7 and a 6X9 back
It's a great system and really portable, but check if the cam is included.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
I've heard various internet experts such as yourself say the same thing, though my copy performs admirably.
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Perhaps I should say "One of the most variable lenses ever made", as I know one other person who agrees with you and quite a lot who agree with me. I've had two, and borrowed two, and they were all soft; which is, as you say, the common consensus.
The images really 'glow' and are very three-dimensional, so the lenses are in that sense admirable, but I've yet to see a picture taken with a sharp one. The image you posted does not look very sharp to me, but I find it hard to judge from an image on a computer screen, as compared with a real print.
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Years ago, I had a Tech 70 modified: top housing off (no RF/VF) and trapdoor cut in the 'roof' to allow more rise. As others have said, it's very good for 100mm and above but even at 65mm it's limited. Small(ish) lens throat, too.
I wouldn't go near a 'baby' Graphic, as the movements are very limited and the Graflex rollfilm backs are fairly awful. As I recall (I borrowed one, 10-15 years ago, so I'm not sure) the lens throat is tiny.
Again as others have said, you might do well to consider a Technikardan or other small, light 45 with a roll-film back -- including the Horseman 6x12cm back that I use on mine. You can of course fit a bag bellows for wide-angles down to (I think I recall) 47mm, though nowadays, I shoot 47mm on an Alpa instead.
Cheers,
R.
I wouldn't go near a 'baby' Graphic, as the movements are very limited and the Graflex rollfilm backs are fairly awful. As I recall (I borrowed one, 10-15 years ago, so I'm not sure) the lens throat is tiny.
Again as others have said, you might do well to consider a Technikardan or other small, light 45 with a roll-film back -- including the Horseman 6x12cm back that I use on mine. You can of course fit a bag bellows for wide-angles down to (I think I recall) 47mm, though nowadays, I shoot 47mm on an Alpa instead.
Cheers,
R.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
One exception does not make a variable - all of mine are quite pathetic as well, not only by current standards, but also in comparison to the contemporary f/2.8 8cm Tessar on the Super Ikonta B(X), let alone slower Tessar types...
There also was a slower f/4.2 10cm Anticomar, which has a much better reputation, and was marketed even by Plaubel themselves as the sharper of the two. But the success of the Makina was due to its fast lens, which in spite of its obvious shortcomings was good enough for contact copies straight to newsprint (back then, state of the art for the dailies), so the f/4.2 is rare.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Well, two exceptions... But I fully take your point. Have you tried the f/4.2? I think I've only ever seen one (and not tried it).
Cheers,
R.
Flipperkoning
Newbie
If you're looking for shift/rise/fall movements, have look at the Cambo Wide or Alpa(not cheap) variant!
If you're looking for tilt/swing movements, have a look at a Mamiya Press or Mamiya Press 23 super!
If you're looking for tilt/swing movements, have a look at a Mamiya Press or Mamiya Press 23 super!
brian steinberger
Established
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
The two or three 100mm Makina ones I've ever seen offered were collector priced, way past what I'd pay for a Tessar copy. But I've had a nice 210mm one on a Peco board, and that one was no worse (nor better) than the similar Xenars and Tessars.