Looking to buy a 28mm Elmarit V4, advice needed

[gaheris]

Hey guys. I have come across a used elmarit v4 but I am puzzled by the paint loss looking thing inside the lens. Any idea what this is and if this is something that should be worried about in long run?

I have also thought about getting the ASPH II because of its small size, but I am not sure if it is worth the price if I only shoot film.

Thank you in advance.🙂

 

[84Bravo]

I have the same lens that I purchased new in the 90's. Mine now looks similar to yours but it hasn't affected the images or use in any way. If the price is significantly lower because of it, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it.

 

[gaheris]

I have the same lens that I purchased new in the 90's. Mine now looks similar to yours but it hasn't affected the images or use in any way. If the price is significantly lower because of it, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it.

Thanks for the information 84Bravo. I wonder what those chips are. The seller is asking for about $1600 I think it's a bit on the high side.

 

[rfaspen]

I bought the same lens at discount with the exact same issue.....we thought it was separation. I asked Don at dag repair about it as I was packing it up to send to him. He said it can't be separation because no glued groups in this lens. He said it is almost certainly paint around the front element and essentially harmless.
Now, I think $1600 is a price for this lens without any issues, certainly not a discount. Mine with discount for "lens separation" was $575 about 3 years ago.
BTW, I truly love the performance of my lens. Stunning. I just don't use 28 all that often.... I should.

 

[Archlich]

If you don't mind non-Leica lens try the M-Hexanon 28/2.8 which is almost identical in design. Character is very similar.

 

[Ccoppola82]

Depending on the price you’re getting it for, it may be similar enough to also consider the v1 Cron. I’ve seen them listed for 16-1700 often.. It’s actually quite small and gives you an added stop. Mine works flawlessly.

 

[zleica]

I would also recommend the Konica M-Hexanon 28/2.8 for a fraction of the cost. The design and performance is very similar and the coating on Konica may be a bit better than Leica's.

 

[Matthew Runkel]

I think of this as a $1200 lens in a private/forum sale, but they don’t come up often. If it were me, I would choose the cheaper 1995 copy on your seller’s website, which does not seem to have the issue. It’s not the “full kit,” but most users of this lens end up not using the famously cumbersome shade. When I owned this lens, I used a Contax GG-1 shade.

This is a wonderful lens, but as noted, you are getting close to v1 cron territory. I’ve not seen those for $1600-1700, but they definitely show up for $1900.

 

[Bill Clark]

I own a 28 Elmarit version III that I paid a little less than $800.00

Info:
https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/28mm_f/2.8_Elmarit-M_III

Is the version IV that much better?

Maybe look for a III? Just a thought.

 

[rfaspen]

I've never used the Konica 28/2.8, but I have tried out a 28 summicron (v1?) and an asph elmarit on my M9. It happened that a rather lens-flush patron of my recently deceased camera shop had these lenses (and more) kicking around in his car. I appreciate his generosity to let me snap a few sample shots of these 28's (and many other lenses I am unlikely to ever see in person at any other time).

Anyway, I simply could not see much difference between my v4 elmarit and summicron or the asph elmarit. A bit sharper in the corners, but I see no glaring difference otherwise. I was expecting an obvious difference in vignetting, but I didn't see it. Maybe I don't look hard enough. Also possible I didn't get enough photos of subjects where differences become obvious. I'm simply amazed at the performance of the v4, and considering I found mine at a discount price (both seller and I thought there was separation) I was thrilled. I only considered the asph elmarit for the smaller size and e39 filters. If I had seen an appreciable difference with a summicron or asph elmarit, I would have pursued one, but $$ and the frequency I use the 28 focal length made an elmarit more attractive (regardless of my luck stumbling onto the discounted lens). I should say that the paint issue around the front element is truly harmless and will not become any more of a "thing" than what you see in the photos of the original post. I am beginning to think this is a more common issue with the v4 than I originally thought. For me, as a user, this was fortuitous.

I also tried the 7-artisans 28/1.4, possibly same day as the Leicas. If I remember correctly, I saw distortion, but sharpness and contrast rivalled the Leicas. It was also the nicest build of the 7A lenses I handled that day. But its kinda big and there was something about the aperture ring I didn't like -- not equal spacing and I think one of the apertures was missing (f8 or 11?) I think because there wasn't enough room to print the number. Again, love my little v4 elmarit 😀

BTW, I use the shade that comes with the lens. It is a touch big, but VF blockage is quite acceptable. I have other lenses with more problematic hoods. However, I'm going to look into that Contax GG-1 shade that Matthew_Runkel mentioned.

 

[D&A]

I'll throw in my thoughts regarding some of the 28mm lenses mentioned here...as those I have used, I've tested exhaustedly, mostly on a full frame digital Leica. The cron Ver. 1 has very even sharpness across the entire frame (edge to edge and corner to corner) but its sharpness is gentle, not biting and of very good contrast. if I was to nitpick, the corners were a bit less in resolving power than the other parts of the frame. The Elmarit asph is bitingly sharp and very high contrast and that high contrast can sometimes be an issue, especially on digital cameras where highlights can be easily blown. The biting sharpness is also basically good edge to edge.

The Ver IV elmarit often displays softer corners than the Ver I cron and that to be is the primary difference. The same is also true of the Konica 28mm f2.8 (soft-softer corners than the Ver I cron)….therefore I can see why many feel the Ver IV Elmarit and Konica are of similar design. The Ver. II cron corners are the sharpness of the lenses I've mentioned so far. I actually love the Konica and those soft corners draw the viewer towards the central part of the frame.

Now onto the 7-Artisans 28mm f1.4. Its of course much bigger and heavier than all the other 28mm lens mentioned and actually is about 80-85% of the performance of the very expensive leica 28mm f1.4 Lux...at a ridiculous fraction of the cost of any of the lenses mentioned. Focusing control is well dampened but as was just mentioned, the aperture ring is whole f-stops and not evenly spaced. Optically its even quite good wide open at f1.4 and at f2.0 has wonderful performance across the entire frame...sharpness as well as contrast. The trick to getting this performance from this lens, is the ability of the user to adjust focusing of the lens with the simple screw driver supplied (easy with a digital camera for easy review). Its almost mandatory to do this upon receiving the lens.

Dave (D&A)

 

[rfaspen]

D&A, Our experiences appear to match in every way. This is reassuring.

I should say that I did consider grabbing a 7A 28/1.4, just because it is a surprising performer at such a low cost; There's not much to lose. I passed only because I am not much of a 28 person. I use 35 and 21 heavily -- I use those focal lengths all the time and just seem to skip over 28.

Of the 7A lenses available today, I have come closest to getting the 50/1.1. I haven't had a chance to try the 21/1.5, but somehow it doesn't grab me from a distance. I did try out the 35/2 from 7A, and I tried to like the lens, I really tried. In the end I just couldn't part with the $225 for it. We could discuss why I passed at length, but to be concise: I have a good selection of nicer 35's and the 7A is not special compared to what I already have. If I were a brand new Leica owner on a budget, I would likely get the 7A 35/2.

Did I mention I love my v4 Elmarit. It satisfies my 28 needs completely.😎

I'll throw in my thoughts regarding some of the 28mm lenses mentioned here...as those I have used, I've tested exhaustedly, mostly on a full frame digital Leica. The cron Ver. 1 has very even sharpness across the entire frame (edge to edge and corner to corner) but its sharpness is gentle, not biting and of very good contrast. if I was to nitpick, the corners were a bit less in resolving power than the other parts of the frame. The Elmarit asph is bitingly sharp and very high contrast and that high contrast can sometimes be an issue, especially on digital cameras where highlights can be easily blown. The biting sharpness is also basically good edge to edge.

The Ver IV elmarit often displays softer corners than the Ver I cron and that to be is the primary difference. The same is also true of the Konica 28mm f2.8 (soft-softer corners than the Ver I cron)….therefore I can see why many feel the Ver IV Elmarit and Konica are of similar design. The Ver. II cron corners are the sharpness of the lenses I've mentioned so far. I actually love the Konica and those soft corners draw the viewer towards the central part of the frame.

Now onto the 7-Artisans 28mm f1.4. Its of course much bigger and heavier than all the other 28mm lens mentioned and actually is about 80-85% of the performance of the very expensive leica 28mm f1.4 Lux...at a ridiculous fraction of the cost of any of the lenses mentioned. Focusing control is well dampened but as was just mentioned, the aperture ring is whole f-stops and not evenly spaced. Optically its even quite good wide open at f1.4 and at f2.0 has wonderful performance across the entire frame...sharpness as well as contrast. The trick to getting this performance from this lens, is the ability of the user to adjust focusing of the lens with the simple screw driver supplied (easy with a digital camera for easy review). Its almost mandatory to do this upon receiving the lens.

Dave (D&A)

 

[gaheris]

A big, big thank you to all of you. Very useful information.

Looks like the paint loss is nothing to worry about image-quality-wise. I agree with Matthew that this is more of a $1200 lens. I ruled out the Hexanon because while a spectacular lens, it does not have a focus tab and I would much prefer a lens with one.

The Mandler-designed version 3 is also on my radar — afterall there is this Winogrand factor in that lens. I may go for it if I see a good one with a lens hood.

If I can't find a good copy of either a version 3 or 4, I may as well spend the wait to save up a bit more for the summicron. I am looking for that not so high contrast, velvety Leica look that seems to be lacking in the ASPH.

 

[santino]

Mine has it too. Leica coded it (6 bit) and assured I don‘t have to do the slightest thing about that paint. IQ is spot on.

 

[Rob-F]

I own a 28 Elmarit version III that I paid a little less than $800.00

Is the version IV that much better?

Maybe look for a III? Just a thought.

I had a version III and thought the IQ was perfectly fine. The only drawback was too much finder intrusion. The version IV is a bit more compact, with less intrusion.

 

[Bill Clark]

The only drawback was too much finder intrusion. The version IV is a bit more compact, with less intrusion.

Yes you are correct. Mine has just a little intrusion the lower right corner.

Lucky me tho, I bought a used M4-2 in very good shape that had the frame lines installed that includes the 28 lens.

 

[D&A]

rfaspen, I did notice our experience regarding all these 28mm lenses matched 🙂. I too am not a big 28mm focal length user but for some reason have been using it frequently recently. I have actively followed 7 Artisan lens offerings....some good, some so-so and of course their 28mm f1.4 where they hit a home run for the price.

I haven't had a need for their other focal lengths yet, so that's why I have no first hand experience with them. I have heard from others (like yourself) that their 35mm f2 is exceptionally good considering the cost and if we consider TT Artisan lenses in the mix, the 75mm f1.2 is a good lens. Of course one has the VC 75mm f1.5 which is superb. The 50mm 61.1 z Artisan lens is a character lens wide open and not bad well stopped down. Some love it, others don't. Then in the 21mm focal length, the new VC 21mm is excellent as well as a newcomer (forgot the name of the company), who makes (or is about to), three ultra wide lenses...which have gotten exceptional reviews. Lots of good lenses and the 28 Elmarits are part of that mix.

Dave (D&A)