Ken Ford
Refuses to suffer fools
I haven't been around for a few weeks and am surprised to see no real discussion about the Q. Are we that fickle?
I'd still love one and am considering it, but that's a lot of money to spend for a camera that will be technically obsolete in a few years and possibly unusable in ten.
I'd still love one and am considering it, but that's a lot of money to spend for a camera that will be technically obsolete in a few years and possibly unusable in ten.
Ranchu
Veteran
I think most people just use their cell phones these days.
DougFord
on the good foot
Availability issues may be contributing to this as well.
Huss
Veteran
8 month long waiting list at the local Leica shop > speculatory internet threads
f16sunshine
Moderator
True dat!...8 month long waiting list at the local Leica shop > speculatory internet threads
Can't try it if you can't buy it.
Leica shop Bellevue Square did not have a display model two weeks ago when I stopped by.
They had a enough customers to keep all the staff occupied though.
Canyongazer
Canyongazer
Doug, you always bring a note of rationality to any discussion.
You're no fun. ;-)
You're no fun. ;-)
Tony Whitney
Well-known
To put it simply, the price is quite beyond belief!
Huss
Veteran
Not compared to these Sonyblads!
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1034962-REG/hasselblad_h_1105101_hv_dslr_camera_with.html
Nah, not for many... since there are big waiting lists. Leica just hasn't made enough as usual. Typical Leica BS.
Lss
Well-known
Fickle? I would say non-owners.
Ronald M
Veteran
They did not expect to sell many with a fixed 28 mm. It was a test bed for something else.
They can experiment on someone else.
There is a group of people who buy anything. Well let them.
They can experiment on someone else.
There is a group of people who buy anything. Well let them.
Ruhayat
Well-known
I'm still saving up for mine. The way I see it is this: 24 megapixels and 13 stops dynamic range more or less matches film. My fixed lens Contax T3 is still as sharp as it was when it first came out. With new Portra and Ektar, it is sharper than ever. I don't see why the Q will be any different -- that lens will still be the same, 20 years on. That sensor is as good as film resolution (maybe more, depending on your scanner), and I am still shooting a range of film cameras today and happy with the output.
I am happy to be shooting film with 40+ year old lenses. I don't see why I wouldn't be with the Q, 20 years on. There are only two long-term issues I can foresee:
1. Longevity of electronics -- I still shoot happily with my M8 and Fuji S5 Pro as my only digital cameras, but my Olympus E1 finally died one day and couldn't be revived.
2. I wish the battery industry would come out with standards for digital cameras. Some of my film cameras don't have batteries available for them anymore or are hard to find. Imagine when Q batteries become obsolete, 20 years from now -- will we be able to source a "Wein cell" alternative?
I am happy to be shooting film with 40+ year old lenses. I don't see why I wouldn't be with the Q, 20 years on. There are only two long-term issues I can foresee:
1. Longevity of electronics -- I still shoot happily with my M8 and Fuji S5 Pro as my only digital cameras, but my Olympus E1 finally died one day and couldn't be revived.
2. I wish the battery industry would come out with standards for digital cameras. Some of my film cameras don't have batteries available for them anymore or are hard to find. Imagine when Q batteries become obsolete, 20 years from now -- will we be able to source a "Wein cell" alternative?
gb hill
Veteran
In that case it seems to me ALL digital camera's made today will be obsolete & unusable in ten years. I don't quite believe that.
f16sunshine
Moderator
Some will be some won't. It's an interesting topic of concern though.
Leica announced discontinued support for M8 sensors but still fixes 50year old film bodies.
Canon seems to fix about anything. Sony.... Ehh...not so good.
Think about the Canon xD series cameras.
There are still plenty of 10D, 20D,30D, and 5D cameras which are 10(+) years old. Most are still making great images.
Canon still makes batteries for these cameras and supports them. The 5Dc in particular is a classic!
The images those cameras made are also destined to be around for a long time.
Along side a 4x5 and Holga, David Burnett used adapted Contax lenses on a 20D for some iconic images of The 2004 elections. He still uses his original 5D's (from a recent interview).
I tend to sit one or two product cycles behind on cameras.
My 5dii has seen 3 baby brothers born since it's arrival in 2008.
My fuji xe1's and x100c are also older siblings twice over.
I expect support will be there for all of these for at least another 5years or maybe even 10+ with the canon.
So as with everything else that needs an answer... It depends.
I imagine Leica will have support for the Q for a long time to come.
fireblade
Vincenzo.
Who says there is a waiting list, Leica themselves, the internet etc etc, where i live the two Leica stores have stock.
Harley Davidson tried the "waiting list" trick in the early 90's and it back-fired, with sales of course.
It is absolute stupidity and foolishness for a major global company to have a waiting list on a product that surely should be in numbers for sales straight of the bat. They did not go into production and make a minimal amount.
The only thing that would cause a "waiting list" is if the product has a defect that would require the units to be "repaired", be it hardware or software, and just like the Japanese, you will never know.
GaryLH
Veteran
Ten plus years...depends on a lot of factors associated mainly w/ the electronics
- most camera makers have some part of the electronic supply chain dependent on third party vendors which can "end of life" any given part..
- if the is no second source for that part, keeping a ten plus year old camera repaired becomes an exercise in canibalization and/or the willingness of the camera maker to make a big enough one time buy.
- mechanical related failure of a part like the shutter or even a button or switch..unlucky enough to have a failure on a part that isn't made anymore?
That being said.. I agree, there is no reason not to expect a camera to last that long given reasonable care. Rd1s and m8s are still going strong though in case of rd1 is there anyone who still repairs them?
The main problem, anything digital is subject to the next best thing syndrome (next years model).
Gary
Jan Pedersen
Well-known
I would not call it BS for Leica to have a waiting list and I disagree with Vincenzo stating that a waiting list is if a product have defects or other issues.
For a small company like Leica or for many other companies not necessarily in the camera business it is very expensive to manufacture to stock.
When a company release a new product they can not accurately know how many units they will sell and how fast, releasing a new product with a limited amount of stock will always offend customers who want the product here and now and it not just Leica in the camera world that have problems to deliver, I waited 4 months for my D800 when that was released.
It makes a lot of sense to do what Leica does, ramp up production when they know more about the demand of a new product.
jloden
Established
Eh, most of the buzz was from people who weren't going to buy one (either because of price, features/lack thereof, of a combination) and were mostly window shopping or spec-comparing. That only lasts so long, especially when there are few owners & reviews, and very few units "in the wild" as it were.
Really it's no different than any other camera release - or indeed, most technology for that matter. I think the process and the polarizing effect is just even more obvious when you're talking about something expensive and meant for a niche market.
That aside, I wouldn't be surprised if the the Sony A7S II, A7R II, and RX1R II releases are a factor as well. If you are in the market for a compact FF camera there are several options now, and the Q is the most expensive. It's also a focal length a lot of folks aren't comfortable with, whereas 35mm f/2 on the Sony is an easier sell for many.
Last thing that comes to mind is the Q (and the recently announced SL) is more evolutionary than revolutionary, IMO. They're exciting developments in technology and features, but in both cases I feel it's more a refinement and distilling of the best elements of mirrorless technology than a revolutionary leap like when Sony released the original RX1 or A7 models. As a result I feel Leica's new products are less likely to generate long-running excitement and discussion.
Really it's no different than any other camera release - or indeed, most technology for that matter. I think the process and the polarizing effect is just even more obvious when you're talking about something expensive and meant for a niche market.
That aside, I wouldn't be surprised if the the Sony A7S II, A7R II, and RX1R II releases are a factor as well. If you are in the market for a compact FF camera there are several options now, and the Q is the most expensive. It's also a focal length a lot of folks aren't comfortable with, whereas 35mm f/2 on the Sony is an easier sell for many.
Last thing that comes to mind is the Q (and the recently announced SL) is more evolutionary than revolutionary, IMO. They're exciting developments in technology and features, but in both cases I feel it's more a refinement and distilling of the best elements of mirrorless technology than a revolutionary leap like when Sony released the original RX1 or A7 models. As a result I feel Leica's new products are less likely to generate long-running excitement and discussion.
MCTuomey
Veteran
Q's are starting to hit the used market a bit with the intro of the SL. patience is a virtue and the compulsives who gotta have the latest are your friends.
f16sunshine
Moderator
We'll probably see a bunch of used ones before too long.
Folks who convinced themselves that 28mm could be their new favorite
I don't blame them one bit. The features of the Q check almost every box. Just wish it was a 35 or even better a 40mm.
A bit off topic.
I think leica could do really great with a 40mm q.
The 40mm Summicron is pretty iconic at this point.
It's presence is not represented in the current Leica catalog.
Build a 40mm f2 "Q"... It would be a hit!