Lou Reed - Photography and gear

[emraphoto]

1/ nothing
2/ nope
3/ far too complicate to provide simple answer
4/ ?
5/ have at it

 

[Chris101]

... What about Mr. Spock as a photog? Leonard Nimoy.

He shoots fat chicks. While I like 'em, most guys (at least those who control purse strings) do not. But didn't Glamor recently get in trouble for that?

But look, celebrities are famous for a particular medium. I like them for their work in that particular medium. Lou Reed's blues are exemplary. Waiting For a Man is great, and Walk on the Wild Side is a classic anthem. but there are LOTS of photographers I need to look at, and music (or TV, or movie) celebs aren't them.

 

[35mmdelux]

Dennis Hopper, Leica shooter.
.
.

 

[sepiareverb]

As much as I like much of his music he's just another pop star who can be a 'photographer' because he's famous.

 

[Andy Kibber]

Now that's a gear list sig!

 

[semordnilap]

lovely.

and whoever posted that Reed rode on the coattails of Cale and Warhol, are you kidding? Warhol gave them money, exposure, encouragement and one record cover(andy did the banana, billy name did wl/wh and s/t.) that's it. he had nothing to do with their music, ever.
and while i agree that the two Cale era albums were the best, the Velvets went on to much more success after he was booted. i am a Cale fan, but to say that Lou attached himself to John's cart is ridiculous. John is a very talented musician who was lucky enough to have been in one of the greatest groups of all time. Lou's group.

my .02

bob

Um... the winky smiley thing implied the comment was in jest. At least half. Well, maybe not so much 😉
First, the velvets would never have had the exposure they did if not for Warhol & the Factory, so they all owe a lot to him. Did they "ride his coattails?" No, not per se, but he gave them not only an in but significant avant-garde credibility. I wonder if their records would have been released if not for Warhol's initial influence. Yet I agree with you on this one, Reed is not "famous" because of Warhol.

Reed IS musically respected (don't know about famous–there's plenty of unexplained that around) because of John Cale. The early VU really was Cale's band, at least SONICALLY, at it is their SONICS that they are remembered for. Reed's later career shows him to be a COMPETENT, occasionally SKILLED singer/songwriter, but people care about him more because of his association with the velvets, which gives him credibility, and his general look/demeanor/attitude. His solo work shows that he is by no means a genius, musically, and the fact that his most well known song remains 'walk on the wild side' shows that. His best solo record by far is Metal Machine Music.

Cale, on the other hand, is genius of rock and roll, a highly skilled avant-garde musician, and I won't speak of his classical work as I don't know it well enough. Look at where the velvets went after Cale departed. Compare Cale's solo records to Reed's, and you'll see that Paris 1919 and Vintage Violence are each more interesting lyrically and sonically than any of Reed's solo records. And all of that aside, John Cale produced the first Stooges record, the Modern Lovers recording, and The Marble Index, among others. The early VU is a lot more Cale than Reed, and I think the band would never have had the influence it did without Cale's guiding hand. Reed was incredibly lucky to have one of the geniuses of rock music in the VU.

Reed's like George Harrison. Skilled, good songwriter, but the Beatles weren't because of him. He went on to do plenty of good things, but would he have had the exposure and lasting credibility that he did if not for Lennon/McCartney?

The case is just funny with Reed because he's the better known of the two. But he's clearly not the greater musician.

That's what I think, anyway! 😛

 

[Andy Kibber]

His best solo record by far is Metal Machine Music.

I was with you until that comment. 🙂

 

[kbg32]

He should stick to music.

 

[bob338]

Um... the winky smiley thing implied the comment was in jest. At least half. Well, maybe not so much 😉

i didn't catch that..

First, the velvets would never have had the exposure they did if not for Warhol & the Factory, so they all owe a lot to him. Did they "ride his coattails?" No, not per se, but he gave them not only an in but significant avant-garde credibility. I wonder if their records would have been released if not for Warhol's initial influence. Yet I agree with you on this one, Reed is not "famous" because of Warhol.

agreed.

Reed IS musically respected (don't know about famous–there's plenty of unexplained that around) because of John Cale. The early VU really was Cale's band, at least SONICALLY, at it is their SONICS that they are remembered for.

i disagree completely. he was no more important than Sterling or Moe.

Reed's later career shows him to be a COMPETENT, occasionally SKILLED singer/songwriter, but people care about him more because of his association with the velvets, which gives him credibility, and his general look/demeanor/attitude. His solo work shows that he is by no means a genius, musically, and the fact that his most well known song remains 'walk on the wild side' shows that.

i think the fact that his most well known song is HIS song shoots holes in your Cale theory.

His best solo record by far is Metal Machine Music.

even as a fan of atonal feedback music, i have to laugh at this. MMM is a joke and even Lou has admitted that it was his big F you to his record company and everyone who expected another walk on the wild side.

Cale, on the other hand, is genius of rock and roll, a highly skilled avant-garde musician, and I won't speak of his classical work as I don't know it well enough. Look at where the velvets went after Cale departed.

they went on to being able to feed themselves.

Compare Cale's solo records to Reed's, and you'll see that Paris 1919 and Vintage Violence are each more interesting lyrically and sonically than any of Reed's solo records.

have you actually listened to these records, or did you swipe this info from Mojo or something? most of lou's solo records are pretty unexciting, but ALL of John's records are horrible. if any of them have ever sold more than a few thousand, i would be impressed.

And all of that aside, John Cale produced the first Stooges record, the Modern Lovers recording, and The Marble Index, among others.

i think 'produced' is a bit of a stretch. he sat next to the engineer for most of his early producer jobs. the marble index may be the only record worse than Paris 1919. and again, even Nico admitted later that it was unlistenable.

The early VU is a lot more Cale than Reed, and I think the band would never have had the influence it did without Cale's guiding hand. Reed was incredibly lucky to have one of the geniuses of rock music in the VU.

that's silly. go listen to 'you're driving me insane' or 'do the ostrich' or 'why don't you smile now' or any of the other atonal, detuned garage punk songs that lou wrote and recorded before he ever met Cale. then tell me how important John Cale is to the sound of lou reed's band.

Reed's like George Harrison. Skilled, good songwriter, but the Beatles weren't because of him. He went on to do plenty of good things, but would he have had the exposure and lasting credibility that he did if not for Lennon/McCartney?

and who would lennon/mccartney would be in the Velvets? Lou wrote all of the songs! even after the lawsuit in the early eighties, lou's name still remains on all of the credits.
i think Harrison would be a perfect comparison for Cale actually. talented, yes, but not enough to be a pop star.

The case is just funny with Reed because he's the better known of the two. But he's clearly not the greater musician.

it all depends on your perspective...

 

[Tim Gray]

totally agree. IMHO this is another example of folks going after their daily fix of celebrity BS. I saw Velvet Underground twice in the late 60's. They were nothing to write home about. Actually they were mostly terribly off key and not very accomplished as musicians. But then again I digress, they got in the Rock Hall of Fame because they were so brave to sing about shooting Heroin. Now that's talent.😎 And the sunglasses.😎😎

I was not alive back in the 60's, but I did see Lou Reed play live a couple years ago in a small club. I was totally expecting a train wreck based on some of the live VU recordings I've heard, but damn, I have to admit, it was a great show. I might not rank it up right at the top, which is populated by artists (big and small) known for putting on great shows, but it was definitely good, energetic, and a lot of fun.

One thing thats hard to argue about VU is they definitely influenced a lot of musicians in later times. I personally like a lot of their stuff and to my younger ears, some of it sounds pretty ahead of its time. But at times, yes a bit hackish. Then again, so were the Sex Pistols. 😀

 

[semordnilap]

i disagree completely. he was no more important than Sterling or Moe. i think the fact that his most well known song is HIS song shoots holes in your Cale theory.

Um... What? Lou Reed's most famous song is written by Lou Reed? Really?

My point is that it's a fine song, but not something that makes one a great musician. If we go with 'best known' or 'most copies sold' we'll never get to good music, that's for sure. How many copies did any of the Velvet's records sell? I'm guessing you think they're better than Pat Benatar?

even as a fan of atonal feedback music, i have to laugh at this. MMM is a joke and even Lou has admitted that it was his big F you to his record company and everyone who expected another walk on the wild side.

Um, I don't see how you can get around the fact that MMM was more influential to noise than any of Lou's other solo work was to any kind of rock/pop. If he did/does consider it a joke, well then it's too bad for him!

they went on to being able to feed themselves.

Is that the barometer of interesting music, then? And did they really feed themselves with s/t or loaded?

have you actually listened to these records, or did you swipe this info from Mojo or something? most of lou's solo records are pretty unexciting, but ALL of John's records are horrible. if any of them have ever sold more than a few thousand, i would be impressed.
i think 'produced' is a bit of a stretch. he sat next to the engineer for most of his early producer jobs. the marble index may be the only record worse than Paris 1919. and again, even Nico admitted later that it was unlistenable.

Sorry, we'll have to disagree here. I think both Paris 1919 and Vintage Violence are pretty great records. Marble Index sounds pretty good to me, too. Her not liking it doesn't make it an uninfluential record.

Anyway, I come back to this: since when is the barometer of good/influential/interesting music the number of copies sold? Let's take Neil Young as an example. Do you think Harvest is his best record? Or Harvest Moon his second? Do you like the Eagles? Yes to any of these means we should probably end our conversation here. 😉

that's silly. go listen to 'you're driving me insane' or 'do the ostrich' or 'why don't you smile now' or any of the other atonal, detuned garage punk songs that lou wrote and recorded before he ever met Cale. then tell me how important John Cale is to the sound of lou reed's band.

And when you're done with those, go listen to Cale's work with Lamonte Young, and the three table of the elements releases of Cale's experimental recordings from the late 60s. Those explain how much Cale was driving the early VU train. Reed was nowhere near those recordings. I'm not saying Reed wasn't into feedback and all–the band never would've worked if he wasn't. But the VU are what they are, historically, because of the SOUND of their music. See next point.

and who would lennon/mccartney would be in the Velvets? Lou wrote all of the songs! even after the lawsuit in the early eighties, lou's name still remains on all of the credits.
i think Harrison would be a perfect comparison for Cale actually. talented, yes, but not enough to be a pop star.

Songwriting isn't the point with the VU!!! It's all about the sound... that's what everyone copied, was influenced by. Not Reed's lyrics and writing. I'm not talking about pop stars here–I'm talking about interesting and influential musicians. John Cale took Lamonte Young's sound and put it into rock music! And look what happened!

it all depends on your perspective...

Indeed! There's no accounting for taste, right? I'm happy to agree to disagree, really... no meanness intended. I don't think we'll be able to come together on this one, though!

Anyway, I think all the vitriol in this thread has to do with the fact that Reed can get a book with Steidl, probably because he's Lou Reed, and none of us can, 'cause we're not. But I don't think he's a dumb guy, and I wouldn't totally discount his work based on four *awful* images on the web. So quick to say "you have to see the print," until it's in the other direction. I don't know any details about Lou's work with the New York visual art scene, but I'm sure he's not doing bad things by judging competitions and putting his money into galleries, exhibitions, etc.

 

[Paul T.]

i
he sat next to the engineer for most of his early producer jobs. t

Utter tosh. Except if you're talking about the Happy Mondays.

Personally, I was always a Lou fan, until I saw one disappointing concert after another. And at the Velvets reunion, Cale was far more riveting. Hell, Mo was far more riveting than Lou.

Still, good for Lou - he might be an icon now, but in 1971 he was living with his parents and was widely mocked, with most people sharing the negative opinions of this board. He's earned the last laugh... & his photos are a damn sight better than Bryan Adams'.

 

[FrankS]

Um...

Anyway, I think all the vitriol in this thread has to do with the fact that Reed can get a book with Steidl, probably because he's Lou Reed, and none of us can, 'cause we're not. But I don't think he's a dumb guy, and I wouldn't totally discount his work based on four *awful* images on the web. So quick to say "you have to see the print," until it's in the other direction. I don't know any details about Lou's work with the New York visual art scene, but I'm sure he's not doing bad things by judging competitions and putting his money into galleries, exhibitions, etc.

i think you're right about this. sour grapes. i feel this sometimes myself. success is not based solely on talent. marketing, luck, who you know, and who you are, play a role.

 

[wizard]

Harsh critics...glad i'm not a musician or much of a photographer.

 

[Jodorowsky]

I'm looking forward to Doug Yule's photobook.

 

[summaron]

The early VU really was Cale's band, at least SONICALLY, at it is their SONICS that they are remembered for.

It was the whole mix -- Reed's lyrics, Cale's playing, but especially Nico's smoky vocals (she had been in La Dolce Vita) which captured everyone's imagination at the time. "Sunday Morning" (likely from Wallace Stevens' Sunday Morning; Reed had studied poetry with Delmore Schwartz I believe) and "I'll Be Your Mirror" were faux-sad and narcissistic in a strange new way, simultaneously sincere and jaded at the same time. Not that any of that was such a good thing, but it was seductive and seemed to start a new genre.

Regarding Reed's photos (taking the title from Casper David Friederic is a bit of a stretch), they would be more in character with the rest of his musical ethics had he taken them with a Canon Giii f/1.7 (like Johnny Depp).

Jim

 

[bob338]

Um... What? Lou Reed's most famous song is written by Lou Reed? Really?

walk on the wild side has to be his best KNOWN song, and it was written by him. in my mind his best song is i heard her call my name, but most can't even listen to it.

Um, I don't see how you can get around the fact that MMM was more influential to noise than any of Lou's other solo work was to any kind of rock/pop.

i'll bet the worst selling U2/REM/Nirvana/ETC album sold more copies than every record Sonic Youth/Earth/Sunn/Melvins/Swans/TG/ETC ever sold combined. MMM has it's place, but in my mind it should not be considered a serious piece of work. lou always changes his story about it, so i doubt we'll ever really know what he intended with it. was it a contract thing or was he serious?

Is that the barometer of interesting music, then? And did they really feed themselves with s/t or loaded?

no, it's not what really matters, and i rarely listen to either of them anymore, but they did reach a much wider audience than they had with Cale. and isn't the whole point of being a performer to get people to watch you perform? no one wants to play to an empty room. that being said, i would give up a digit to have seen one of those Cafe Bizarre shows.
and yes, once they got rid of Cale, hired Sesnick and started touring more, they ate better.

Sorry, we'll have to disagree here. I think both Paris 1919 and Vintage Violence are pretty great records. Marble Index sounds pretty good to me, too. Her not liking it doesn't make it an uninfluential record.

other than her work with the VU, including Chelsea Girl, i can't listen to any of her records.

Anyway, I come back to this: since when is the barometer of good/influential/interesting music the number of copies sold? Let's take Neil Young as an example. Do you think Harvest is his best record? Or Harvest Moon his second? Do you like the Eagles? Yes to any of these means we should probably end our conversation here. 😉

i despise Neil Young. and i won't even dignify the eagles question with an answer.

And when you're done with those, go listen to Cale's work with Lamonte Young, and the three table of the elements releases of Cale's experimental recordings from the late 60s. Those explain how much Cale was driving the early VU train. Reed was nowhere near those recordings. I'm not saying Reed wasn't into feedback and all–the band never would've worked if he wasn't. But the VU are what they are, historically, because of the SOUND of their music. See next point.

i have the wooden box(...in the sixties?) and have listened to it a couple of times. it's interesting but falls back into the same old LaMonte Young/Terry Riley thing and just becomes too much of a good thing.
i will concede that without Cale we wouldn't even be discussing this band. my point in all of this(whether i articulated it well is debatable) is that Lou Reed was a talent in his own right before he ever met John Cale. Lou didn't have to have Cale around to make weird records, he already had! Cale just made them weirder. and that weirdness may be what you're calling their 'sound,' but i think Sterl, Moe and Lou were as important to it as John was.
do i enjoy the reed/cale VU more than the reed/yule VU? without a doubt. if i never hear 'who loves the sun' again, it will be too soon.

John Cale took Lamonte Young's sound and put it into rock music! And look what happened!

or you can say that Lou Reed brought melody and lyrics to noise.

Indeed! There's no accounting for taste, right? I'm happy to agree to disagree, really... no meanness intended. I don't think we'll be able to come together on this one, though!

no meanness perceived or intended either. at least we're on the same relative side.



sorry for boring everyone else with the minutiae of the early Velvet Undergound...

bob

 

[bob338]

I'm looking forward to Doug Yule's photobook.

is he putting out another one? his 'on the road with the velvet underground'(or something like that) book was great but only about 25 pages.

bob

 

[Jodorowsky]

It's nice to be able to talk about the Velvets.

 

[unclescarMT]

I don't see how Lou Reed enjoying photography as a hobby is any different from a large majority of the members here. True, his celebrity means that his work is more likely to be published than most other hobbyists, but who cares? If you don't like it, don't buy it. As for his interest in high end photo gear, obviously, he pays the bills with a more interesting and lucrative "day job" than many of us, and that provides him with the income to afford better toys than many of us. That being said though, I think there are plenty of other nonfamous RFF members who have more gear than talent. It's not what you shoot, it's what you shoot.

Let the haters hate, I'm gonna go listen to Street Hassle.