sf
Veteran
I am getting nice results with my Arista developer, but would like to tone down the grain and contrast a bit more. A lot more. I am surgically precise with measurements, agitation, and temperature, so the grain isn't a fault of my process - it's just the nature of the developer. I'd like to just find something to use with slower B&W films like the Fomapan 200 or Neopan 400 or Fp4.
Diafine? I really want something cost effective but good. Powders are OK. If there is something panthermic, that would be awesome.
Diafine? I really want something cost effective but good. Powders are OK. If there is something panthermic, that would be awesome.
kaiyen
local man of mystery
George,
What times are you getting right now? Contrast is controlled by time in developer, so you probably just need to cut that. Also, grain goes up if it's in the soup too long, too, so you might discover that grain will go down, as well.
So before you go trying another developer, reduce your time. If you're already pretty low (close to 5 or 6 minutes), then increase dilution (are you using 1+9 right now? then try 1+19) and go from there.
allan
What times are you getting right now? Contrast is controlled by time in developer, so you probably just need to cut that. Also, grain goes up if it's in the soup too long, too, so you might discover that grain will go down, as well.
So before you go trying another developer, reduce your time. If you're already pretty low (close to 5 or 6 minutes), then increase dilution (are you using 1+9 right now? then try 1+19) and go from there.
allan
ZorkiKat
ЗоркийК&
shutterflower said:
Some textbook type retorts here:
Grain size is inherent in the film itself and is determined at the time of its manufacture. Development has really little to do with grain size. However some developers or development methods can make it appear that the grain is finer or grittier than it really is.
The best path to finer grain is to start with a fine grain film. Use any developer for it and the grain will still look fine.
D76 is a good all around developer which would probably suit your requirements. It's been classified as a "low contrast" developer in the old references, and its high sulfite content 'shaves' the grain crystal so that the spaces between the grains (it's these spaces which account for the grainy appearance on the print, not the film grain itself) become diffused and less obvious. D76 also gives full emulsion speed.
When you use developers like D76, you can follow the "expose for the shadows and develop for the highlight" dictum. That way you can use shorter developing times. Longer development in D76 type developers cause contrasts to increase and grain to be more obvious. The sulfite in high concentrations tend to replate the silver it previously ate into the developing silver and make the grain look clumpy.
If you mix your own, you might want to try to brew D-23. It's got only two components- some elon (Metol) and a lot of sulfite. Gives an even lower contrast than D76 because of the lack of hydroquinone. Having only one developing agent in the mix makes this developer really 'panthermic'.
D76 had been my staple film developer for years- that was the only developer commonly found here. I also used to mix D23 and D25 a lot and for a time thought that they were great developers. I then grew tired of the mushy grain these developers made. Now I prefer the more "honest" grain made by highly diluted D76 (at 1+3) or even Rodinal. Both compensating but with more defined grain for a 'sharper' look.
BTW, there was a developer called as "Harvey's Panthermic 777" from the 1930s-40s.
Jay
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gns
Well-known
Agree with above posts.
When I used a lot of Tri-X / D-76, my normal development time was about 70% of suggested time. This will reduce contrast and grain.
When I used a lot of Tri-X / D-76, my normal development time was about 70% of suggested time. This will reduce contrast and grain.
FrankS
Registered User
I got good tonality and low contrast results from Diafine. (Too low contrast for me.)
kmack
do your job, then let go
I have been using F76 for a few weeks now and I generally like what I am seeing. I believe the Arista Developer is the same as Clayton F76+. If I have this right (anyone step in if I am wrong here) this developer is rather high acutance which will give a greater edge sharpness which when scanned could give you a grainier look.
As jay mentioned aparent grain size is more a function of the film you use.
Efke 25 in F76 is sharp and almost grainless with nice tone. Arista.edu 400 is sharp, good tone and contrast. The arista scans are grainy. I also did some Tri-X the scans were as sharp but not as grainy as the Arista. The Arista in HC110 (1:100) were less sharp but still good tone but less apearant grain.
There have been several threads in the past about grain aliasing and scanning. You may want to do a search and see if there may be a way to reduce your grain within your workflow.
As jay mentioned aparent grain size is more a function of the film you use.
Efke 25 in F76 is sharp and almost grainless with nice tone. Arista.edu 400 is sharp, good tone and contrast. The arista scans are grainy. I also did some Tri-X the scans were as sharp but not as grainy as the Arista. The Arista in HC110 (1:100) were less sharp but still good tone but less apearant grain.
There have been several threads in the past about grain aliasing and scanning. You may want to do a search and see if there may be a way to reduce your grain within your workflow.
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NickTrop
Veteran
I've only used Diafine a few times, and found it to be low contrast and grainier than I prefer. That said, I think Diafine is an excellent speciality developer, best suited low-light with Tri-X exposed at 1200 to 1600. It's "acceptable" subjectively, for more standard applications. For high-speed/low-light stuff, I think it's the best combination. I punch up the contrast by using a "3" filter when I print. I usually use 2 or 2-1/2.
jano
Evil Bokeh
Nice thing about diafine is that you won't have to be surgically precise, just keep your work area clean. I haven't tried it with foma 200, but have done so with tri-x and acros, pretty good.
Ronald M
Veteran
Significantly finer grain can be obtained by doubling the exposure and cutting development 20 %.
Delta 100 at EI 50 is awsome. Tri x and HP+ will give super improvements and you get more shadow detail and less blockage of highlights.
This goes right along with what was stated abouve about reduced developer time. I use homemade D76 with the "official" formula. 2- Metol,5- hydroquinone,100-sodium sulfite, 2-borax, and maybe one other per liter, I don`t remember. Use full strength unless the times get under 5 min, then go to 1:1.
Delta 100 at EI 50 is awsome. Tri x and HP+ will give super improvements and you get more shadow detail and less blockage of highlights.
This goes right along with what was stated abouve about reduced developer time. I use homemade D76 with the "official" formula. 2- Metol,5- hydroquinone,100-sodium sulfite, 2-borax, and maybe one other per liter, I don`t remember. Use full strength unless the times get under 5 min, then go to 1:1.
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