ktmrider
Well-known
I have owned Leica M's since 1975 and have owned all the film M's up to and including the M6TTL. My favorites are the M2 or M4. I presently have an M2 and a MP240 for the digital itch.
Now I have spent maybe five minutes holding a LTM Leica at Red Dot Camera in London about five years ago. I was not really impressed but five minutes really is not enough time to handle a fairly radical camera (compared to what I was used to).
Out of boredom last week and with a episode of GAS, I ordered a Leica 3F with 50f2 Summicron (made in 1952 which is my birth year) from Classic Camera. Now the camera will not arrive for two more days but already suffering buyers remorse. I am giving thought to returning it and applying the funds to either a black chrome M4 or very nice M2 with a 50.
So, tell me about your experiences the the LTM. I know most of its characteristics thanks to YouTube.
Now I have spent maybe five minutes holding a LTM Leica at Red Dot Camera in London about five years ago. I was not really impressed but five minutes really is not enough time to handle a fairly radical camera (compared to what I was used to).
Out of boredom last week and with a episode of GAS, I ordered a Leica 3F with 50f2 Summicron (made in 1952 which is my birth year) from Classic Camera. Now the camera will not arrive for two more days but already suffering buyers remorse. I am giving thought to returning it and applying the funds to either a black chrome M4 or very nice M2 with a 50.
So, tell me about your experiences the the LTM. I know most of its characteristics thanks to YouTube.
raydm6
Yay! Cameras! 🙈🙉🙊┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘ [◉"]
I own two IIIf's and don't have any adjustment issues switching between them and my M2 and M6. Love them all.
Actually, the thing that struck me the most upon first handling a IIIf was its diminutive size and the watch-like quality. Totally different tactile and visceral experience than the M's; but in a good way -at least for me. But, I can understand your concern. You need to feel comfortable with the camera.
If you do hang on to it, consider a SBOOI bright-line finder which sweetens the experience.
The IIIf with a Collapsible Summicron is a classic combination. Maybe a shoot a roll, get some hang time together, and see how you like it.
Actually, the thing that struck me the most upon first handling a IIIf was its diminutive size and the watch-like quality. Totally different tactile and visceral experience than the M's; but in a good way -at least for me. But, I can understand your concern. You need to feel comfortable with the camera.
If you do hang on to it, consider a SBOOI bright-line finder which sweetens the experience.
The IIIf with a Collapsible Summicron is a classic combination. Maybe a shoot a roll, get some hang time together, and see how you like it.
Timmyjoe
Veteran
I agree with everything raydm6 says above. One thing I might add, I like using my IIIc because as I get older, the eyes ain't what they used to be, and focusing my IIIc accurately is easier for me than focusing my M's, as there is magnification of the image in the little rangefinder window on the Leica III cameras. Make sure you've got a good silvered split image mirror in your camera, and they're quite easy to focus accurately.
The IIIf & collapsible 50 cron is so classic and was the first Leica III combo I ever used. It will make some nice images.
Best,
-Tim
The IIIf & collapsible 50 cron is so classic and was the first Leica III combo I ever used. It will make some nice images.
Best,
-Tim
punkzter
Established
I think that the current market is such that if you didn't grossly overpay, you can try it out, and then resell it for what you paid.
Give it a try. I have a IIIc that was my Grandfather's camera. I enjoy using it, but not nearly as much as my M6 Classic.
Give it a try. I have a IIIc that was my Grandfather's camera. I enjoy using it, but not nearly as much as my M6 Classic.
Timmyjoe
Veteran
That's cool that you have your Grandfather's camera. Was he the original owner?
Best.
-Tim
Best.
-Tim
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
I agree with all you said. I also have two Leica IIIf bodies, and I also have an M3. The M3 is a simpler camera to shoot with, but the IIIf is fun to use. I love the tiny size; I have very small hands. The IIIf definitely has a mechanical charm to it that is missing on the more modern M-bodies, even the old ones like the M3.
If the OP keeps the IIIf, he will need viewfinders since the built-in finder is 50mm only. I also recommend an accessory finder for 50mm, since the built-in 50mm finder is too small and imprecise.
lynnb
Veteran
I find my IIIc and IIIf the most tactile cameras I've ever used. I use accessory viewfinders, but on the street I often shoot from the chest without them. The shutter sound is magic.
As another person with small hands, I also appreciate the Leica CL, but it's not as well built as the Barnacks. Much nicer VF though.
I think the Elmar 5cm f/3.5 is at least as classic a lens as the collapsible 'cron for the Barnacks.
I suspect your IIIf will grow on you. Get the SBOOI or Voigtlander equivalent.
As another person with small hands, I also appreciate the Leica CL, but it's not as well built as the Barnacks. Much nicer VF though.
I think the Elmar 5cm f/3.5 is at least as classic a lens as the collapsible 'cron for the Barnacks.
I suspect your IIIf will grow on you. Get the SBOOI or Voigtlander equivalent.
punkzter
Established
He was the original owner. He did not have much money and must have saved up for some time to purchase this camera. It was broken for a long time and lived in my grandparent's attic. It was given to my Uncle when my Grandfather died. When I became interested in film photography, my Uncle gave it to me. He helped me to pay the cost of giving it a full CLA (DAG).
raid
Dad Photographer
I replaced at one stage my IIIc with a IIIf, but both were/are excellent cameras. I used more often a Standard Leica with wide angle lenses. It is a very small package. Elegant. Beautifully made to the degree that I marvel at its functionality after all these years. My LTM lenses are of lower qualities when compared with my M lenses. Therefore I favor M cameras over LTM cameras. It is about the lenses that I own.
Glenn2
Well-known
The Barnacks are certainly a different experience to the M’s. You will probably find the 3f a bit more difficult and fiddly at first. Loading isn’t as easy and the finder just doesn’t compare to an M. The SBOOI as mentioned is a big help with the 50mm.
What drew me to Barnacks was the low cost and small size. In 1970 on my first trip to India I used a pair of M4’s and was aware of the weight and size.
In 1971 decided to see more of the world and booked an open dated around the world ticket on PanAm. Was able to pick up a 3g and Elmar for $125, plus 35 Summaron and 90 Elmar for a few dollars more. I traveled alone, enjoyed getting to off the beaten track and didn’t want the worry of expensive gear.
The last thing I wanted was to look like a wealthy tourist while wandering down back alleys in places like Afghanistan and India.
At the time I passed as just another traveller on the hippie trail. The difference was that my shoulder bag, a war surplus gas mask bag held my camera gear.
Always figured I might get mugged at some point and didn’t want to loose the M4’s. On that trip was stuck in India when the Indo-Pakistani war broke out and all international flights were suspended. Scary times, cities blacked out, mobs chanting Bangaladesh zindabad , too much excitement.
The next year took me to North Africa and on to India again with the 3g.
After that I stupidly traded the 3g for some M gear. By 1976 was ready for another ATW trip and this time picked up a 3f which served me well.
In the late seventies my career shifted from physical chemistry to oceanography and the 3f became my sea going camera. Moist sea air is very corrosive and didn’t want to expose an expensive camera to those conditions.
The Barnacks were my beater cameras that I didn’t mind putting in harms way and were small enough to carry everywhere.
A camera in the hand is worth 3 in the bag, and a dozen left at home.
In the late nineties the 3f was getting long in the tooth and needed a CLA badly which would have cost more than I paid for the camera. Got rid of it and kept the M4’s as I wasn’t going to sea anymore due to health issues.
Later I missed the tiny Barnacks and now have both 3f and 3g to keep the M’s company.
The Leicas still get used, but now my daily carry camera is one of Fuji’s X100 series. Had the original X100, then the S, now the V.
Glenn
What drew me to Barnacks was the low cost and small size. In 1970 on my first trip to India I used a pair of M4’s and was aware of the weight and size.
In 1971 decided to see more of the world and booked an open dated around the world ticket on PanAm. Was able to pick up a 3g and Elmar for $125, plus 35 Summaron and 90 Elmar for a few dollars more. I traveled alone, enjoyed getting to off the beaten track and didn’t want the worry of expensive gear.
The last thing I wanted was to look like a wealthy tourist while wandering down back alleys in places like Afghanistan and India.
At the time I passed as just another traveller on the hippie trail. The difference was that my shoulder bag, a war surplus gas mask bag held my camera gear.
Always figured I might get mugged at some point and didn’t want to loose the M4’s. On that trip was stuck in India when the Indo-Pakistani war broke out and all international flights were suspended. Scary times, cities blacked out, mobs chanting Bangaladesh zindabad , too much excitement.
The next year took me to North Africa and on to India again with the 3g.
After that I stupidly traded the 3g for some M gear. By 1976 was ready for another ATW trip and this time picked up a 3f which served me well.
In the late seventies my career shifted from physical chemistry to oceanography and the 3f became my sea going camera. Moist sea air is very corrosive and didn’t want to expose an expensive camera to those conditions.
The Barnacks were my beater cameras that I didn’t mind putting in harms way and were small enough to carry everywhere.
A camera in the hand is worth 3 in the bag, and a dozen left at home.
In the late nineties the 3f was getting long in the tooth and needed a CLA badly which would have cost more than I paid for the camera. Got rid of it and kept the M4’s as I wasn’t going to sea anymore due to health issues.
Later I missed the tiny Barnacks and now have both 3f and 3g to keep the M’s company.
The Leicas still get used, but now my daily carry camera is one of Fuji’s X100 series. Had the original X100, then the S, now the V.
Glenn
raid
Dad Photographer
Thank you for this write-up, Glenn. Very convincing and interesting.
David Hughes
David Hughes
I think you ought to wait for it, play with it and put a film or two (colour or B&W) in it; get them printed properly and so on. Sleep on it a while and then decide.
It's not something you can do in the abstract without any experience of it and other peoples' experiences are interesting but won't apply to you any more or less than their shoe size and choice of clothes for their holidays.
I've had most of the Leicas and still have most of them and can see advantages and disadvantages to them all. My only regret is that someone stole my close focus with goggles Summicron; nothing else. And if I had to slim down the heap I still wouldn't know where to start despite having given it a lot of thought over the years.
Regards, David
kingtimur
Newbie
I hardly find a reason to pick up my m2+cron35 ever since I got my Leica iii + Elmar 50. The Barnack Leica has its own charm that I couldn't describe. Probably because of the quirkiness of it that makes me love it more compared to the M2. Also, the Barnack + elmar50 is weight nothing. No pain in the neck, no pain in the shoulder. 
Dralowid
Michael
ktmrider
Well-known
Thanks for the comments. I will certainly shoot a few rolls of film before making a decision. In fact I leave on a 3 week motorcycle trip around the eastern US and my M2 is at Youxin Ye's for a CLA so I planned on the 3F being the film camera.
I have watched a lot of you tube videos and read just about every relevant thread here on rangefinder forum. One of the reasons I ordered it was because I have owned just about every M.
I have watched a lot of you tube videos and read just about every relevant thread here on rangefinder forum. One of the reasons I ordered it was because I have owned just about every M.
raydm6
Yay! Cameras! 🙈🙉🙊┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘ [◉"]
And I'm sure you know Youxin works on Barnacks also. He CLA'd my 2nd IIIf and Summicron while I hung out at his house. He takes the collapsible summi apart and his wife gently cleans the elements; he cleans/relubes/re-assembles the lens. Did an excellent job.
Bmoze
Established
I have an M4 and recently bought a iiif, just to see what it’s like to use. It’s the coolest mechanical camera I’ve ever touched. It’s small and always in my daily carry bag. An external finder makes it a pleasure to use. The rangefinder, if clear, works well, although I prefer the M4 rangefinder. I use it with a Color Skopar 28mm, with VC 28 finder, and Color-Skopar 50mm, with Leica 50 finder. Loading film is still challenging for me, but it’s become my favorite kit.
Franko
Established
Ms (M2R years ago and M4-2 came and went) but you'll find me with a 1935 IIIa and 1938 50mm Elmar hanging on the side under my coat most days. Other times it's a IIIf and 35mm Color Skopar. My little Elmar still amazes me with its sharpness.
Scrambler
Well-known
If you've watched all the videos, you really just need to try the camera.
First, I'll qualify that I haven't owned a Leica M. I have owned 4 comparable style cameras, 3 in M mount.
As has already been said, the Barnack Leicas are a small tactile device. The VF is underwhelming. The film advance quirky (and you'll need to try the range of advance options to find what works best for you). Film loading is simple so long as you follow the factory instructions: cut a long leader. Don't bother with any fancy rot. The long leader and it just works. If you've owned M2 and M3 cameras you understand the loading otherwise. Modern film may sit a little angled when you shoot, giving the frame a slight angle on the film. Don't fret, it will work fine.
I have owned 3 of the Barnacks: 2 IIIc and 1 IIIa cameras. They have all been amazing. A folding lens is a bonus IMHO but I'm sure the Cron will do you fine. Optically it should be good enough
With a single 50mm the early Leicas are in their element. You aren't going to change the lens so single viewfinder and screw mount make no difference. The enlarged RF finder is straightforward.
Think of it as an M3 with everything stripped to the minimum. Everything you need, nothing you don't.
I've had all the Ms from 2 thru 7, but now prefer shooting with the smaller barnacks.
There are many things that are better with Ms, mostly much better, but I find them just too big. I wouldn't have said that a few years ago when I compared the size of my M6 to my Nikon F5, but nowadays every gram counts...and every cubic millimeter.
And so it follows...small lenses, small bodies...yeah, it means a small viewfinder but I never found rangefinders to be about framing accuracy anyway.
Focusing precision is easy, since the rangefinder is 1.5x life size.
There are many things that are better with Ms, mostly much better, but I find them just too big. I wouldn't have said that a few years ago when I compared the size of my M6 to my Nikon F5, but nowadays every gram counts...and every cubic millimeter.
And so it follows...small lenses, small bodies...yeah, it means a small viewfinder but I never found rangefinders to be about framing accuracy anyway.
Focusing precision is easy, since the rangefinder is 1.5x life size.