Lubrication of internals/not lens

[JPiettro]

Hello! Just joined this wonderful forum.
I'm about to renew my camera CLA hobby with a more serious approach. 15 years ago I did CLA couple cameras including a complete Leica type curtain shutter replacement but I consider my previous experience obsolete now.

What I wonder about the most is what do you friends think about lubricating the internals of a camera in general?
Much is said about lens focusing threading lubrication but when it comes to lubricating the:
- film advance mechanism (gears)
- cocking rack mecanism
- etc. (although not much left apart from the above)
... there are various mixed opinions.

Some are absolutely against lubricating film advance gears while others do it like for instance Simon Hawketts shows in his blog in Agfa Karat IV overhaul:
https://simonhawketts.co.uk/2017/05/07/agfa-karat-iv-repairs-and-cleanup/

At the very bottom of the page he doesn't hesitate to lube the gears and the cocking rack in the 'Agfa Karat IV Repairs – Film Advance Strip down' section of that page.

I see no harm in applying a tiny amount of an appropriate synthetic grease that will stay fresh for next couple decades.
Any thoughts on that?

 

[Robert Lai]

Most repairers whom I know do use lubrication. Typically a fine watch oil, often synthetic. The main issue is to totally degrease and clean the item first, before putting new oil in it. The oil is also placed at strategic locations (e.g. pivot bearings) using a needle tip syringe, or between the jaws of tweezers. That is, don't give the whole camera an oil bath.

 

[davidnewtonguitars]

"If a little is good a lot is better" these are the words I live by.

 

[JPiettro]

Most repairers whom I know do use lubrication. Typically a fine watch oil, often synthetic. The main issue is to totally degrease and clean the item first, before putting new oil in it. The oil is also placed at strategic locations (e.g. pivot bearings) using a needle tip syringe, or between the jaws of tweezers. That is, don't give the whole camera an oil bath.

Robert, you are talking about oil, not about grease. These are two different substances in terms of their fulfilled tasks.
I understand oil will mostly go into the lightly loaded shaft/rotating part combos. Those are mainly found in the shutter mechanism.

What I'm primarily talking about are somewhat heavier loaded mechanisms such as those that are found in the film advance-transport/shutter cocking assemblies.

 

[mooge]

the only downside I can think of is that you'd get dirt and stuff stick to the transport gears if you grease them. (But then how much dirt ends up in your camera?)

do involute gears have sliding contact anyway?

The Leica M2 repair manual (for what it's worth) recommends greasing some of the gear teeth.


anyways, since I only repair cameras for my use, it wouldn't matter to me whether the transport gears were greased or not - I'll never wear a camera out in my lifetime with the amount of film that I shoot.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Without a guide from a manufacturer, I will try to think through what a part is doing and what affect oil or grease will have. For example, I will not put grease on a pawl that needs top be loose at times, and only oil its pivot point if it is under solid spring pressure. On a TLR, I will put grease on the teeth of the large gears that are moving the film in a camera like the Yashica-Mat which sounds like a potato masher without it. But these are surfaces under pressure but not requiring independent movement (i.e., they are driven by strong external forces such as a wind lever). I will NOT put grease on the same gears in a Rolleiflex because I know that they are built to a higher tolerance of better metals. I will put grease on the axle of these gears, though.

There are small levers and pawls in a camera like Rolleiflex that react to subtle movements and forces; too much grease or oil could stop them from dropping into place. There are two pawls on a Rolleiflex wind mechanism which Rollei actively says DO NOT apply any lubrication; this is the only case I have seen where there is an active warning like this in the Rollei manuals.

I have settled on using a #000 paint brush for applying fine oils- I get control over location and amount very easily. Grease, I try to apply to teeth or such off the camera so I can wipe it away from side surfaces, etc. Again, I use a small paint brush to apply, but more like a flat #1 or so. And for both oil and grease, cotton swabs to wipe away.

Well, what it comes down to is to think through what is going on. Grease for pressure and external forces that will overcome its viscosity. Oil for rotation and light motion. Do not lube where any hindrance could stop what needs to be a free movement. All in all better to underlube and go back and add rather than overlube and finds that greases and oils have spread over days, weeks, years. In many ways, the mechanism will 'tell you' what it needs, both by design and by how it works or not as part of the system.

 

[peterm1]

I thought graphite dust was the way to go.....??

Alternatively I have some stuff called Triflow which originally came from a gunsmith. It contains fine particles of Teflon suspended in some kind of solvent or synthetic oil. As always less is more - I have used it for all kinds of applications (but not cameras - I just did not think of it but on reflection it may be OK), and I usually apply it with the tip of a toothpick or something of that sort (an ultrafine pinpoint artists brush works too). As a result the tiny 2 fluid oz. bottle I have is probably now 30 years old and still going strong. It may be worth considering in circumstances where lubrication is necessary - and only then, as opposed to smothering internals with it.

 

[JPiettro]

Great replies, thank you gentlemen!
Keep it going, please...

I agree with those of you suggesting that engineering knowlegde (if acquired) can greatly help in deciding on where to apply oil or grease if it seems to be a good decision in every particular case (with the exclusion of parts that should never be oiled).
I aslo agree that if a camera is supposed to be used only occasionally in addition to its collecting value (hopefully not ultimately collecting dust) then it's worth thinking twice before getting down to greasing/oiling based on the engineering judgement unless the greasing/oiling of a part is an absolute must (which in most cases will only apply to the lens mount threading).

I hope this is a good summary of the replies above so far.