Cal,
It shouldn't have to be. Every other camera manufacturer has a one week turnaround generally.
mpaniagua
Newby photographer
Also,if you go to McDonalds,they fix you your meal in minutes. If you go to a luxury restaurant, your meal will take a lot longer. You also need a reservatiom and sometimes you get into a waiting line. Different business models.
Regards
Regards
brennanphotoguy
Well-known
And offers loaners if you're apart of their pro service.
Edit: and replies to all forms of communication.
Not the same. At the luxury restaurant sitting in its environment for hours is part of its supposed appeal. What is the appeal of waiting months for service simply because you paid more for a camera?
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Brennan,
You are correct that the waiting is crazy, but I don't let it make me crazy.
Also know I think waiting for a Harry Fleenor overhaul is worth the wait. He simply is the best. I intend to keep shooting my Rollie 3.5F the rest of my life, so what is a 12 week wait?
Also with Sherry, my guess is that I'm one of those special customers of hers, meaning a pain in the butt. LOL. I actually have had Sherry build me a la carte Leicas and have tried to have her do all kinds of modifications. Some she refused. LOL. As proof I have a 1975 SL2-MOT that basically is a minty camera/time capsule that was built from two parts cameras. Anyways I can understand why some repair people would not want to work for me. LOL. Funny thing is that Sherry thought this was a very cool project, and it was performed rather quickly and sooner than I expected.
As an artist I know there are good times to be crazy. LOL.
Cal
SaveKodak
Well-known
Exactly. We're talking about a company that has rolled out little boutiques in many cities all over the world. They can set up 8 retail locations in the USA, 30 in Europe, and 34 in Asia (surprise surprise) but they can't fix a Q in less than 6 months?
Leica is not 6 german men in a basement factory putting out as many handmade cameras as they can anymore. It's a worldwide luxury brand. They could develop a service and support structure but they have decided that their clientele isn't worth it. And it really isn't surprising when you have people in this very thread saying that their turn-around is completely acceptable. Trump said he could shoot someone on 5th Ave and he wouldn't lose any supporters. Leica has much the same relationship to their users. Lucky for me, my M4 can be serviced easily and quickly without interference from the mothership.
brennanphotoguy
Well-known
Ok, I hear people say stuff like this all the time about different things. What makes him "the best," and makes it worth a 3 month wait? My camera looks and functions new, has been properly serviced and has been working just fine for the past two years with no hiccups. What more would you expect from a repair? Youxin does the same thing, he makes cameras function like they should and warranties them for a year. What makes waiting 3 months minus a few days for another person to do the same thing when the end result is exactly the same?
robert blu
quiet photographer
It seems me a constant that Leica service requires a long time and there are many complains about it.
I can understand Leicas are special cameras, need special technicians to work on, smaller company compared to other japanese brands and so on.
What I do not understand is why Leica doesn't supply to his clients a loaner service when repair times exceed a few weeks. I'm sure many clients would even pay (a reasonable) fee for it. Not everyone likes to buy a backup camera for occasional use, just in case the "main" camera should be serviced.
For me this is the main reason which kept me away from buying an "important" digital Leica.
Leica invested a lot of money in beautiful shops all over the world, which is good, probably it's time now to invest money in upgrading the technical service.
robert
I can understand Leicas are special cameras, need special technicians to work on, smaller company compared to other japanese brands and so on.
What I do not understand is why Leica doesn't supply to his clients a loaner service when repair times exceed a few weeks. I'm sure many clients would even pay (a reasonable) fee for it. Not everyone likes to buy a backup camera for occasional use, just in case the "main" camera should be serviced.
For me this is the main reason which kept me away from buying an "important" digital Leica.
Leica invested a lot of money in beautiful shops all over the world, which is good, probably it's time now to invest money in upgrading the technical service.
robert
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
John,
There is an Italian restaurant in East Harlem called Rau's. You can't book a reservation, and the tables are actually owned, meaning you need to know someone who owns a table to eat at Rau's.
I have gone to Peter Luger's and got some of their famous rude service. I brought my friend (my treat). The waitor asked us if we wanted menus, and when Steve said yes the waitor huffed with his body language that he was annoyed. He handed my friend his menu and before he could open it asked, "What do you want?"
Steve was getting annoyed himself, but I was laughing.
When Steve ordered his steak, sides and a beer, the waitor said, "Is that all?"
Anyways seeing Steve respond to the rude behavior is part of the culture at Peter Luger's, but the steaks are mighty good. I love their steak sause also.
My friend was offended by the rude culture, but I was entertained by it.
Cal
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Brennan,
First off Harry Fleenor is a specialist. All Harry works on is Rollies. Harry is also factory trained. So is Sherry and Don, but Youxin is not. In fact professionally Youxin is an accountant, and repairing cameras for him is a hobbie/sideline.
The most overused and misused term is CLA. Do not mistaken a CLA with an overhaul. There is a distinction. I actually get my cameras overhauled, and actually pay for parts that are replaced. A CLA is basically like a tune-up and no parts are replaced.
I do not think Youxin is in the same league. Also know I intend or try to keep cameras with the long-long haul in mind, meaning I want to keep the camera the rest of my life. For me it is not about the same thing, saving money or time, it simply is trying to get the best.
To me Youxin or having a generalist repair person is not the same league. Clearly there is a distinction, but whether there is value added that is valued to you is seperate concern.
Cal
Huss
Veteran
I think it's funny that the Leica apologists are spinning the 3-6 month wait as acceptable as if it's part of a luxury experience.
"You got your Nikon repaired in 3 days? Paah! I waited 4 months for my Leica! Eat your heart out!"
(I am a current M240 user, ex M-E user etc etc.)
"You got your Nikon repaired in 3 days? Paah! I waited 4 months for my Leica! Eat your heart out!"
(I am a current M240 user, ex M-E user etc etc.)
brennanphotoguy
Well-known
I'm getting quite a laugh out of this as well haha.
SaveKodak
Well-known
You are making a sophistic argument about your preferred technicians. You have not provided any evidence that a Fleenor treatment is any different from a Nippon or other treatment other than Fleenor saying it is.
The TL/DR of what you're saying (perhaps without knowing it) is that you are very susceptible to marketing and branding. As long as someone tells you you're getting 'the best' of something, you're willing to be fleeced and you'll take to the internet to let us all know how happy you are about it. Case and point: Piezography, waiting lists for hand made guitars, Peter Lugars (the best steak in Williamsburg can be found at St. Anslem), and the Leica SL.
The best part is it's not even very hard to just concede, "yes, it would be nice is Leica service was faster but it hasn't affected me personally so I accept it." Instead you're telling us to say, "thank you sir, may I have another?!" SMH.
brennanphotoguy
Well-known
I understand the distinction between a CLA and an overhaul. What I don't understand is why you would do an overhaul when a CLA is all that is required. I want to keep my 3 primary cameras going for the rest of my life as well which is why when they NEED to be overhauled, they will be overhauled.
What you have yet to explain to me is what your overhauled 3.5F does differently than my CLA'd 3.5E3 in terms of use? My speeds are accurate, all my features work just fine, my screen has been replaced with a Maxwell, it has new grease and all that good stuff. Factory trained is more of a "certification." Sort of like my "JW Rufolo's Institute of Occupational Safety and Health" certification I have in Evacuation Training. What makes Sherry or Don better than Youxin? Is there some special stamp of approval I'll get when my camera comes back? Will my camera somehow perform better than someone who just had a CLA? Doubtful. In fact, Sherry royally screwed up an M4 and an M4-P camera on two different trips for a friend of mine who works at the counter. Ask him the next time you're there.
Are you saying that Youxin is not capable of performing an "overhaul?" Or that our tech isn't capable of performing a Rollei "overhaul," when in fact they both perform them on a regular basis when it is needed?
mpaniagua
Newby photographer
I suppose it comes down to : Do is it worth it? Does the camera worth the thousands of dlls you are paying for them?Does having a Digital Leica worths the pain of having bad customer service? For me, it doesn't so I dont buy them. It's worth to some people, so they buy them and agree with their slow service. I stick with film Leicas that I know I can get serviced and repaired with third party people that I trust.
The big question is: If they doesn't worth it and you keep making comparation with other brands, why do you buy them? No one is forcing no one to buy them (no one is forcing me at least). There are many non-Leica full frame cameras that would take M lenses (currently use my Canon 6d with my M lenses)
That really puzzle me.
If you have something that you dont like about Leica, then let Leica know. If they dont provide what you are looking for, don support them, easy as that.
Regards.
The big question is: If they doesn't worth it and you keep making comparation with other brands, why do you buy them? No one is forcing no one to buy them (no one is forcing me at least). There are many non-Leica full frame cameras that would take M lenses (currently use my Canon 6d with my M lenses)
That really puzzle me.
If you have something that you dont like about Leica, then let Leica know. If they dont provide what you are looking for, don support them, easy as that.
Regards.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
SMH,
I do state facts that some repair people are factory trained and others are not, but that does seem to be discounted. I have used Nippon to repair cameras actually a lot. If you think I have a bias towards some repair specialists maybe, but it is based on personal experience not on other peoples' experiance. Perhaps loyalty is a better word than bias.
Also know I have quite a few Nikons for their durability, reliability, and low maintenance. In fact this is my first Leica service experience.
I can say I have minimized and limited the impact of long waiting, and protected my own best interests while many others have not. That's very different than asking for a beating.
How much exaggeration; and how much third person experience is being posted here? It would be crazy to say I don't think the waiting is long. Kind of funny the spins and distortions going on here.
I'm also laughing, but not at myself.
Cal
Bottom line is that for the price premium of a luxury brand, Leica should have a *faster* repair turnaround and better service than the other brands.
Period.
Period.
mpaniagua
Newby photographer
I should have wings too but I dont have them 
If you dont like it, dont buy it. Sorry if it sounds hash, but there are plenty other camera brands to spend your dollars on.
If you dont like it, dont buy it. Sorry if it sounds hash, but there are plenty other camera brands to spend your dollars on.
I should have wings too but I dont have them
Many of us former Leica users have. That said, I wouldn't not buy one in the future. The Q is very appealing and the M will always be special to me.
Robert Lai
Well-known
CLA vs overhaul.
CLA vs overhaul.
I have rarely found a CLA to be worthwhile. The "problem" is usually the tip of the iceberg. Realize that all of the other components inside the camera are deteriorating / maladjusting themselves also. By the time a "problem" becomes obvious, there are many other issues present internally that a simple bandaid won't cure. Thus, I've found it quicker and cheaper in the long run to get a full overhaul, rather than CLA this, and CLA that, and CLA the 3rd thing that shows up, etc.
Leica is a small camera company. The same way that say, Ferrari is a small car company. They can't afford the staff and turnover of the big guys. Don't forget that Leica was almost completely bankrupt not a few years ago. Wild Heerbrugg bought them in the 1980s for the microscope division, with no interest at all in the photographic side. This was followed by numerous buyouts and bailouts. Leica is growing slowly again, but they've been budget constrained for ages. I appreciate that they've tried to keep up their quality throughout all of this.
For Canon (as an example), photography is a mere sideline, as they make office equipment, and a whole bunch of other items. They have the cash to spend.
CLA vs overhaul.
I have rarely found a CLA to be worthwhile. The "problem" is usually the tip of the iceberg. Realize that all of the other components inside the camera are deteriorating / maladjusting themselves also. By the time a "problem" becomes obvious, there are many other issues present internally that a simple bandaid won't cure. Thus, I've found it quicker and cheaper in the long run to get a full overhaul, rather than CLA this, and CLA that, and CLA the 3rd thing that shows up, etc.
Leica is a small camera company. The same way that say, Ferrari is a small car company. They can't afford the staff and turnover of the big guys. Don't forget that Leica was almost completely bankrupt not a few years ago. Wild Heerbrugg bought them in the 1980s for the microscope division, with no interest at all in the photographic side. This was followed by numerous buyouts and bailouts. Leica is growing slowly again, but they've been budget constrained for ages. I appreciate that they've tried to keep up their quality throughout all of this.
For Canon (as an example), photography is a mere sideline, as they make office equipment, and a whole bunch of other items. They have the cash to spend.