Lust for Leica

blacklight

blacklight

digital renegade
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Dec 1, 2006
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Hi,

The feeling, that my life isn't complete without owning a Leica gets stronger and stronger and I know I won't resist for very long.

That's why I'm looking for an advice from experience Leica users, what body to get. At the moment, my bugget won't allow M6 and newer ones, so the real question is, if I should buy M2 or M4-P. I don't consider M3, because as I understand, it has not 35 frame lines.

So what are pro's and con's for those two bodies and which one would you recommend? I'd also like to hear your opinion, what would be reasonable price for good condition examples.

Thanx
 
blacklight said:
Hi,

The feeling, that my life isn't complete without owning a Leica gets stronger and stronger and I know I won't resist for very long.
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Didn't you say you got an R3M a couple of weeks ago? What's wrong with that? In my view you'd be miles better off by putting money into an extra lens instead of another RF body.

What's more, the Leicas aren't Nirwana. They have their shortcomings as well, they're just different from those of the Bessa. Loading is atrocious unless you get one with a quick load take up spool, and even then it's iffy. There's no lightmeter in any of the older models. They're heavy, big and lumpy. And unless recently hauled over, can come with loads of problems..

That doesn't mean they don't have a charm of their own; the shutters are the quietest focal plane shutters there are. And the silky smooth film advance is unsurpassed.

I have an M4, but in hindsight would rather have spent the money on an extra wide for my Bessa...
 
I only have a IIIf. I'd love to add an M2.

I'll be a jerk and say start with a IIIc or IIIf or the like.
Use an external finder or just skip it for 35mm and short teles.
These small jewels are a turn on. A least take a look if you can.

f8&go
 
For me, the big advantage of RF cameras (over, say, my OM-4T) is the precision of focus, useful to me especially when wide open (when I get it right) - which is why I avoided the Bessas with their shorter effective base length. Having done that I realised that the R3x model Bessas (@ 37mm) aren't that much different from low magnification finders like the .58x Leicas (40.1mm) or my Hexar RF (41.1mm) - which are only about 10% more accurate and which do fine for a 35 or 50mm lens @f2. (A 50/1.8 on an SLR has an effective base length equivalent of 13.9mm.)

So, at a practical level, I think the advice to get lenses rather than another camera sounds pretty good. But personally I like my Hexar RF and my M3 (and while I have a practical justification for the M3 for focusing the 75/1.4, I really have it because I like it).

So if you want a Leica "just because", I say go for it! (As long as you can afford it without impact on something truly important.)

Personally, as a Leica to go with a 35mm, I'd favour the M2, if only by analogy with my M3 of similar qualities but different RF magnificafion. I like my M3 - did I say?

...Mike
 
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Hi Blacklight, I know just where you are coming from. Since I bought my first new camera in 1974, to me owning a Leica was allways the Holy Grail. Sure a Ford can take you from point A to point B very comfortably but wouldn't it be nicer to do it in a little Maserati. It took a midlife health crisis to make me realise life is too short to not try and indulge your fantasies a little. Sure the Zeiss is a great camera but if you are like me, and, for what ever reason consider a Leica the ultimate, you'll never feel happy until you own one. And lets face it, a Leica is much cheaper than a Maserati or that little pad in Florence. Buy it, and somehow work out how to buy it new. My choice a M6.
 
pvdhaar said:
Loading is atrocious unless you get one with a quick load take up spool, and even then it's iffy. There's no lightmeter in any of the older models. They're heavy, big and lumpy. And unless recently hauled over, can come with loads of problems..
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Peter, I'm yet relatively fresh owner of M6 (about two months) came to RF from SLR world. I was also intimidated by many claiming an impossible film loading of Leica, but just after even little practice I cannot understand all that fuss about it. It takes just a few minutes to get it right once for all, anotehr few minutes to master it and then it is indeed easy and obvious. The light meter absence in earlier then M5 models may indeed be a hindrance for any who used to use camera's built-in metering (and it is very good in M6 once used properly). The camera is indeed somewhat heavier then it may be perceived relatively to its size, but I found it to be actually an advantage allowing steadier hand-holding and I consider if one is lamenting of the camera of this kind to be too heavy for actual usage (even for quite prolonged period of time) - this is the obvious sign of physical shape issue of the person which is totally different problem.
I can imagine even the most robust camera needing to be servcied once in a while if subjected to a regular years-long more or less heavy shooting experience, however I didn't hear a lot of user reports on problematic Leicas even of legacy models such as M4 and earlier, even considering the camera hadn't been overahuled in any recent time. On the other hand, there is obvious statistics on brand new Bessas (which appears to be a fine camera on its own) arriving with battered rangefinder or having raggefinder prone to get off in just regular usage without any serious reasons (such as hard bumping around or alike).

Alex
 
pvdhaar said:
...What's more, the Leicas aren't Nirwana...
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Yes they are! :D

Blacklight, what lenses do you see yourself using? A M2 would probably be my choice, but you may need the extended framelines in a later body.
 
Well, it is true, I have quite fresh R3M and true, I like it and owning a Leica probably won't make me a better photographer. So, yeah, one can say I want it just because :)

Though there are also some rational reasons for my lust - while using Nokton 40/1.4 for some time I've found out, that I often wish I had little wider lens - 35 would be perfect. Also, the framelines for 40 are really very close to the edges, even without glasses and while it's not that big deal, it bothers me a little. So the plan was to get rid of the 40 Nokton, buy some 50 and use it with R3M and to get a Leica for 35.

I don't really need other focal lenghts, except maybe I will get some really wide lens one day.

But, as I've said the main reason for Leica is the feeling - of course, you can try to cure me and make me believe that I don't want it :)
 
I would lean towards an M2.

Having a M4-P with black chrome on zinc, you might develop a lust for brass bodies. The M2 will end such lusting for cosmetics; it's a camera made to be beautiful, even after it became old, worn-out, and ugly...

If you don't use 75mm and 135mm lenses, you will appreciate the simplicity of M2's VF. The RF patch of M4-P is also more prone to flaring.
 
I just put my M3 with M4 viewfinder on Ebay. Sounds like that would be a perfect match for you Backlight. I have a Bessa R2 and it gets the job done. It's a nice camera, but it's not a Leica. Leica feels so good to hold in your hands and the action is smooth and the shutter whispers sweet nothings into your ear. It's a thing of beauty. You won't be sorry. You get used to the loading and if you get an M6 it loads like a dream.
 
one OT question, perhaps someone can tell - if I would buy the camera on ebay, from a seller within EU, would I have to pay VAT/taxes, if I live in EU too?
 
blacklight said:
Well, it is true, I have quite fresh R3M and true, I like it and owning a Leica probably won't make me a better photographer. So, yeah, one can say I want it just because :)

Though there are also some rational reasons for my lust - while using Nokton 40/1.4 for some time I've found out, that I often wish I had little wider lens - 35 would be perfect. Also, the framelines for 40 are really very close to the edges, even without glasses and while it's not that big deal, it bothers me a little. So the plan was to get rid of the 40 Nokton, buy some 50 and use it with R3M and to get a Leica for 35.

I don't really need other focal lenghts, except maybe I will get some really wide lens one day.

But, as I've said the main reason for Leica is the feeling - of course, you can try to cure me and make me believe that I don't want it :)
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Hi there, from the way you said it, you are having what I had several months ago.

At that time I was pretty happy with my Olympus collection which includes several excellent RF cameras already. One day, I got the Leica GAS attack, which is pretty formidable, it causes me to spend nights after nights tracking KEH or the bay for a Leica that I can "afford".

However, one thing stopped me from actually plunking my hard-earned money, that is the question: What will I get in return? yes, I will get the coveted Leica "glow" that every new owner seems to have, and a bragging right... that's pretty much it. then what? more Leica GAS...? that can't be good...

Will it improve my photography? yes, but only if I end up using it a lot to get familiar with it, just like if I use my other RF cameras continuously. I know enough that an ultra excellent camera+lens will not transform my photography nor would its subjects. When you start to think this way, it's not really worth it.

Now, to cure the GAS semi-permanently ;) , I gave myself two goals. First goal, I *will* own a good Leica sometime in my life and I intend to use it up to the point I can give it to my daughter. Second goal, I will make enough money from my photography (part-time only for now) to fund the Leica, either fully or partially.

This way, I'm not in denial, and at the same time, the impetus to improve my photography increases.

So, I'm not trying to dissuade you from owning a Leica at all, just trying to give you an alternative way of looking at it :)
 
Many nice M bodies

Many nice M bodies

There are many nice M bodies on the market. So many that it is difficult to choose.

One thing is certain: Whatever you decide, don't buy the M5. It is the body that killed rengefinder production in Wetzlar. Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad Leica. :eek: :D ;) :)

Best of luck!
 
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