NickTrop
Veteran
These are the three Yashicas I own. Thought I might give my thoughts on each to kill some time over a cup of joe, and to give anyone considering one of these cameras some food for thought from a user who owns all three...
First off all three cameras are gems. You can't go wrong with any of them. However, I would rate them in the following order, based on my experience: 1. Lynx 14 (I have the IC version), 2. GSN (verrry close second), 3. CC.
Lynx 14 IC:
Unique. Fastest known lens on a fixed-lens rangefinder at f1.4. (Mamiya Super Deluxe is close at 1.5 but it's hard to find) Parallax corrected viewfinder. Quite/excellent shutter. ALL MANUAL CONTROLS. Solid construction.
What I like about this camera. It's the ONLY rangefinder that offers all these features. It is the only camera ever made (to my knowledge) that slaps a very good, very fast seven element double gauss f1.4 lens on a leaf shutter that has all manual control and a parralax corrected viewfinder. You can hand-hold this down to 1/30th, even 1/15th shutter speed (braced). Leicas can't even do that, nor can Leicas synch flash at all speeds, like this camera. It is outstanding in low-light situations, has terrific bokeh, and 3D-pop
However, it has some definate minuses: It's big. It's not a little "street shooter" type rangefinder like the Electro CC and later fixed lens models from Canon, Yashica, Minolta, Konica etc made in the mid-70's. (However, it's not heavy or unweildy as some say it is, imo. The body has the same dimensions as the GSN. It's the much bigger lens that adds weight. My SLR when the Jupiter 9 is mounted is heavier). The rangefinder patch is not as bright as the GSN or later models but it's certainly usable (mine was cleaned and serviced). The lens is flare-prone. With all the controls on the lens barrel, it is a busy affair. I prefer the meter controlled by the pressing the shutter release as opposed to a button on the camera body. Although I use the "IC", the "E" would likely be my first choice because the "E" has a match needle meter on the top plate, so you can pre-meter things without bringing the camera to your eye. More likely to need servicing than the GSN (in fact, count on it).
This is a camera one has to learn to use. I liken it to your first manual transmission vehicle. However, once things become second nature man, I love having that fast lens on a leaf shutter and full control over all parameters. You can really experiment, and have no fear of nearly any lighting situations.
GSN
Lots of information on this one, (and I'm already nearly done my first cup-o-joe) so I'm not going to prattle on about it. Another great low-light shooter. Probably the fastest camera in operation I've ever owned but its unique design allows for control over aperture, and therefore DOF. Taking the shutter speed out of the equation really speeds things up over the IC. The lens has better control of flare than the Lynx, and I like this camera better than the Lynx with color film. Has an amazing and unique ability to hold the shutter 10, 20, 30(?) seconds to properly expose objects in low-light situations - neat. It's lighter than the Lynx but only a little smaller, really. As quite as the shutter of the Lynx is, the GSN might have the quitest shutter ever designed. Barely audible. Over/Under lights on top plate allow for pre-metering, though the Lynx 14"e" has this too. Capable of truly outstanding results, that belie its low cost and availability, as is evident on this board and GSN users on Flickr.
Lynx 14 vs GSN
I like the Lynx 14 over the GSN by a hair because I weight its faster lens and full manual control over the advantages of the GSN and the Lynx's disadvantages. This has become my main camera but I stull use the GSN as well. Basically, I keep color film in the GSN and black and white in the Lynx. However, 60% (at least) of what I shoot is B&W.
The Electro CC
Very good street shooter with some annoying flaws. It's small, black and stealthy, very nicely finished with an infamous F1.8 35mm lens. However, this wide a lens on a leaf shutter resulted in a top shutter speed of 1/250. I've had situations where in very bright situations (a bright summer day) with 400 speed film, the "Over" light goes on, at all apertures and there's not much you can do about it. (The 1/250 top shutter speed seems to be an engineering constraint with this wide an optic on a leaf shutter, as the 2/35 Hexar AF that was made in the 90's also has a 1/250 top SS) Yashica did away with the Over/Under light on the top plate, and the camera is not capable of fill-flash/synch at all speeds since plugging in the flash automatically sets the shutter speed at 1/30th and there's nothing you can do about it. A weird feature Yashica thought was a "benefit" at the time but disabled one of my favorite advantages of leaf shutters - flash synch at all speeds/fill flash capability. Also, the top ASA setting is only 400, so you can't take advantage of the better/faster 800 speed films of today.
Still, it's a very capable street shooter with a rare (and expensive) lens spec of 35/1.8, which costs a bundle in Leica-ville. In fact, some dude in Japan hacks the lenses off the CC and makes them Leica mounts.
Despite its annoyances, the CC would be my "Street Shooter" if I didn't stumble upon a deal for a Konica Auto S3. This camera has a 1.8/38mm and the difference in field of view is impreceptable from a practical stand-point. It's top Shutter Speed is 1/650, I think the lens is a hair better than the CC, it's considerably smaller than the CC, you can meter up to 800 speed film, and it has a unique and useful fill/flash metering capability. About the only thing that keeps this from being a "perfect" camera is its lack of manual control (shutter priority only). Given these advantages the CC has taken a "back-up" role. The Konica is simply a better camera, imo.
Rant over, coffee consumed : ) Hope somebody looking at Japanese rangefinders finds this perspective useful.
First off all three cameras are gems. You can't go wrong with any of them. However, I would rate them in the following order, based on my experience: 1. Lynx 14 (I have the IC version), 2. GSN (verrry close second), 3. CC.
Lynx 14 IC:
Unique. Fastest known lens on a fixed-lens rangefinder at f1.4. (Mamiya Super Deluxe is close at 1.5 but it's hard to find) Parallax corrected viewfinder. Quite/excellent shutter. ALL MANUAL CONTROLS. Solid construction.
What I like about this camera. It's the ONLY rangefinder that offers all these features. It is the only camera ever made (to my knowledge) that slaps a very good, very fast seven element double gauss f1.4 lens on a leaf shutter that has all manual control and a parralax corrected viewfinder. You can hand-hold this down to 1/30th, even 1/15th shutter speed (braced). Leicas can't even do that, nor can Leicas synch flash at all speeds, like this camera. It is outstanding in low-light situations, has terrific bokeh, and 3D-pop
However, it has some definate minuses: It's big. It's not a little "street shooter" type rangefinder like the Electro CC and later fixed lens models from Canon, Yashica, Minolta, Konica etc made in the mid-70's. (However, it's not heavy or unweildy as some say it is, imo. The body has the same dimensions as the GSN. It's the much bigger lens that adds weight. My SLR when the Jupiter 9 is mounted is heavier). The rangefinder patch is not as bright as the GSN or later models but it's certainly usable (mine was cleaned and serviced). The lens is flare-prone. With all the controls on the lens barrel, it is a busy affair. I prefer the meter controlled by the pressing the shutter release as opposed to a button on the camera body. Although I use the "IC", the "E" would likely be my first choice because the "E" has a match needle meter on the top plate, so you can pre-meter things without bringing the camera to your eye. More likely to need servicing than the GSN (in fact, count on it).
This is a camera one has to learn to use. I liken it to your first manual transmission vehicle. However, once things become second nature man, I love having that fast lens on a leaf shutter and full control over all parameters. You can really experiment, and have no fear of nearly any lighting situations.
GSN
Lots of information on this one, (and I'm already nearly done my first cup-o-joe) so I'm not going to prattle on about it. Another great low-light shooter. Probably the fastest camera in operation I've ever owned but its unique design allows for control over aperture, and therefore DOF. Taking the shutter speed out of the equation really speeds things up over the IC. The lens has better control of flare than the Lynx, and I like this camera better than the Lynx with color film. Has an amazing and unique ability to hold the shutter 10, 20, 30(?) seconds to properly expose objects in low-light situations - neat. It's lighter than the Lynx but only a little smaller, really. As quite as the shutter of the Lynx is, the GSN might have the quitest shutter ever designed. Barely audible. Over/Under lights on top plate allow for pre-metering, though the Lynx 14"e" has this too. Capable of truly outstanding results, that belie its low cost and availability, as is evident on this board and GSN users on Flickr.
Lynx 14 vs GSN
I like the Lynx 14 over the GSN by a hair because I weight its faster lens and full manual control over the advantages of the GSN and the Lynx's disadvantages. This has become my main camera but I stull use the GSN as well. Basically, I keep color film in the GSN and black and white in the Lynx. However, 60% (at least) of what I shoot is B&W.
The Electro CC
Very good street shooter with some annoying flaws. It's small, black and stealthy, very nicely finished with an infamous F1.8 35mm lens. However, this wide a lens on a leaf shutter resulted in a top shutter speed of 1/250. I've had situations where in very bright situations (a bright summer day) with 400 speed film, the "Over" light goes on, at all apertures and there's not much you can do about it. (The 1/250 top shutter speed seems to be an engineering constraint with this wide an optic on a leaf shutter, as the 2/35 Hexar AF that was made in the 90's also has a 1/250 top SS) Yashica did away with the Over/Under light on the top plate, and the camera is not capable of fill-flash/synch at all speeds since plugging in the flash automatically sets the shutter speed at 1/30th and there's nothing you can do about it. A weird feature Yashica thought was a "benefit" at the time but disabled one of my favorite advantages of leaf shutters - flash synch at all speeds/fill flash capability. Also, the top ASA setting is only 400, so you can't take advantage of the better/faster 800 speed films of today.
Still, it's a very capable street shooter with a rare (and expensive) lens spec of 35/1.8, which costs a bundle in Leica-ville. In fact, some dude in Japan hacks the lenses off the CC and makes them Leica mounts.
Despite its annoyances, the CC would be my "Street Shooter" if I didn't stumble upon a deal for a Konica Auto S3. This camera has a 1.8/38mm and the difference in field of view is impreceptable from a practical stand-point. It's top Shutter Speed is 1/650, I think the lens is a hair better than the CC, it's considerably smaller than the CC, you can meter up to 800 speed film, and it has a unique and useful fill/flash metering capability. About the only thing that keeps this from being a "perfect" camera is its lack of manual control (shutter priority only). Given these advantages the CC has taken a "back-up" role. The Konica is simply a better camera, imo.
Rant over, coffee consumed : ) Hope somebody looking at Japanese rangefinders finds this perspective useful.
januaryman
"Flim? You want flim?"
Great in-depth report. Thanks. I almost got a CC, but was glad I didn't just for the reason you give - the 1/250 shutter speed limitation. I would be forced to use 100 film instead of the 400 I'm used to, and I think there's no reason for that.
I wanted small, so I invested in the Canonet QL17 GIII and never looked back. The less is on a par with the Y's (I have a GSN, GTN and GT) and for stashability it can't be beat.
I think I'm currently in love with my new Bessa R because 1) it's my newest baby and 2) it's all manual and 3) I have 2 lenses for it, a 55 and a 35. It feels right in my hands, the shutter clacks a bit too loudly, but it is a reassuring sound to my ears. If the strap lugs on the body were only placed properly, it might be my forever favorite.
Then there's my SLRs .... (I know, RANGFINDER forum)
I have an old EF with a Takino 28-85 3.5 zoom that I would take with me if I had a 1 camera, 1 lens requirement. SWEEEEEET!
I wanted small, so I invested in the Canonet QL17 GIII and never looked back. The less is on a par with the Y's (I have a GSN, GTN and GT) and for stashability it can't be beat.
I think I'm currently in love with my new Bessa R because 1) it's my newest baby and 2) it's all manual and 3) I have 2 lenses for it, a 55 and a 35. It feels right in my hands, the shutter clacks a bit too loudly, but it is a reassuring sound to my ears. If the strap lugs on the body were only placed properly, it might be my forever favorite.
Then there's my SLRs .... (I know, RANGFINDER forum)
I have an old EF with a Takino 28-85 3.5 zoom that I would take with me if I had a 1 camera, 1 lens requirement. SWEEEEEET!
NickTrop
Veteran
Thanks, Januaryman. Sounds like you have some nice kits too. Don't mean to say that the CC is a bad camera but it does have limitations (but that 2/35 is sweet). My SLR is a Cosina made Vivitar 3800 all manual. Pentax-K mount with an M42 converter. Mostly use that with the Jupiter 9 portrait lens (perhaps my favorite lens... Beautifully soft for portraits at f2, sharp like a razor by f4, with great bokeh...)
Bessa R is a nice kit, great lenses... Probably go after that or a Hexar RF or a Contax G1 or G2 if I was in the market for a interchangeable lens RF sys. But if the standard focal length was good enough for HCB, it's good enough for me.
Bessa R is a nice kit, great lenses... Probably go after that or a Hexar RF or a Contax G1 or G2 if I was in the market for a interchangeable lens RF sys. But if the standard focal length was good enough for HCB, it's good enough for me.
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rcoder
Member
The Lynx sounds pretty nice...I'm found a GSN at the local Goodwill for $15 recently, (which appears to be working more or less flawlessly!) and while I love how quiet and simple it is, I do miss the needle meter from my OM-1.
I'm actually in the process of doing some long-term planning for travel in south-east Asia, and basically trying to get some shutter activations on a handful of older film bodies (I've got the OM-1, GSN, and an Olympus SP at this point) with an eye towards picking one or two to take with me. (My daily-use DSLR setup is not something I'd expose to either a humid jungle or overseas thieves...)
I'm actually in the process of doing some long-term planning for travel in south-east Asia, and basically trying to get some shutter activations on a handful of older film bodies (I've got the OM-1, GSN, and an Olympus SP at this point) with an eye towards picking one or two to take with me. (My daily-use DSLR setup is not something I'd expose to either a humid jungle or overseas thieves...)
Abbazz
6x9 and be there!
NickTrop said:
Thanks for the very useful review.
Don't forget the Kowa 140. This camera had interchangeable lenses and came with a 1.4/50mm Prominar standard lens. There were also a 2.8/35mm and a 3.5/85mm lens. The leaf shutter was located behind the lens and the parallax corrected viewfinder had reflected frames for all the lenses. You can see a photo of this rare beast on this blog: http://plaza.rakuten.co.jp/link1212kk/diary/200701290000/
Cheers,
Abbazz
NickTrop
Veteran
Damn it, Abbazz! You just gave me GAS! Now I'm looking for the Kowa 140!
: )
: )
drec
Rangeflounder
A couple of points:
(1) The Lynx-14 is an excellent camera. I had the IC version as well. I only got rid of it because of my flipflop from film to digital (heh, just got an Olympus SP off Ebay yesterday...!). It's bulky, for sure-- looks like a MF camera; the same size as my Iskra. But, generally light for the size-- I don't know what metal alloy is used, but it definitely ain't brass or steel. The lens is very nice, pleasing bokeh.
(2) Many of those old compact rangefinders' real speeds were different from what they were advertised to be. As much as I'd like to believe it, I doubt something like the S3 or Canonet has 1/650 or 1/500 top speed, respectively, as given. Even the Konica Hexar, light years ahead in technology, only has 1/250 top speed. Focal shutters just have more oomph than leaf. That being said, with the wide latitude of film, being off by a stop or so shouldn't be a big deal. I just used b&w with my rangefinders; I'd hesitate to use slide film with any rangefinder save a Leica, if just because you don't know what speeds you're really getting.
Great review; brought back fond memories of that Lynx! I'd add, in conclusion, that if I was in the market for one again, I'd get one even if the meter was inoperative, as long as the speeds were on. It's that good.
(1) The Lynx-14 is an excellent camera. I had the IC version as well. I only got rid of it because of my flipflop from film to digital (heh, just got an Olympus SP off Ebay yesterday...!). It's bulky, for sure-- looks like a MF camera; the same size as my Iskra. But, generally light for the size-- I don't know what metal alloy is used, but it definitely ain't brass or steel. The lens is very nice, pleasing bokeh.
(2) Many of those old compact rangefinders' real speeds were different from what they were advertised to be. As much as I'd like to believe it, I doubt something like the S3 or Canonet has 1/650 or 1/500 top speed, respectively, as given. Even the Konica Hexar, light years ahead in technology, only has 1/250 top speed. Focal shutters just have more oomph than leaf. That being said, with the wide latitude of film, being off by a stop or so shouldn't be a big deal. I just used b&w with my rangefinders; I'd hesitate to use slide film with any rangefinder save a Leica, if just because you don't know what speeds you're really getting.
Great review; brought back fond memories of that Lynx! I'd add, in conclusion, that if I was in the market for one again, I'd get one even if the meter was inoperative, as long as the speeds were on. It's that good.
R
ruben
Guest
Hi Nick,
Thanks for your review. Would you like to add an evaluation of the Lynx 14 light meter, due to its GSN fierce competitor ?
Cheers,
Ruben
Thanks for your review. Would you like to add an evaluation of the Lynx 14 light meter, due to its GSN fierce competitor ?
Cheers,
Ruben
R
ruben
Guest
greyhoundman said:
I find this quite a meaningful statement, though running against my guts.
The implications are:
a) Better own new (accurate) cameras than older ones. Aaaauuuch!
b) If you already have many old cameras, make hard decisions to select a few, and have them serviced. Aaaauuuch!
c) If you already have many old cameras, Stop buying more old cameras. Aaaauuuch!
d) My conception that with good digi meters you can overcome the need for buying new cameras and enjoy the old world, is rather a misconception: Your digi tells you f11 & 1/250 - you set your oldie, who says this is what the camera will actually perform ? (not to speak about distance metering) Aaaauuuch!
Sorry folks and friends, by now I cannot challenge these statements.
Aaaauuuch!
:bang: :bang: :bang:
No cheers this time, I am rather furious.
Ruben
Bill58
Native Texan
I've got two CC's; one of which I'd gladly trade for a S3. Any takers? Sorry for the rank commercialism.
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
The AF Hexar shutter's top speed is only 1/250th. That's not a servicing issue; that's the specification of the camera. I don't know why it isn't higher (and this is seen as a drawback, based on comments I've read), but there you are.
hidden
Newbie
What about the GX ?
compared to the other 3 :}
thnks
compared to the other 3 :}
thnks
Bill58
Native Texan
Good question--my GX outperforms every other compact Rf I own! However, they are rare.
R
ruben
Guest
Bill58 said:
Hi Bill,
Do you say the GX outperforms the GSN lens quality and exposure accuracy ?
I was to ask this question
Cheers,
Ruben
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Drec, give it a try.drec said:
I got some excellent results on slide film with a yashica GSN.
Excellent, by any technical requirements. Some of them are posted in my 'model no model' album on rff.
Bill58
Native Texan
Ruben:
Yes.... and it's smaller. I really love it
Bill
Yes.... and it's smaller. I really love it
Bill
T
Todd.Hanz
Guest
I had a 35CC, shoot Acros at 100 and get an ND 2-4 if speed is an issue, great camera!
NickTrop
Veteran
Bill58 said:
So you agree with Karen Nakamura (Photoenthography.com, I'm sure you're familiar with that site) that the GX is "the best fixed lens rangefinder" period. Hmmmmmm... they're rarer than hen teeth. Rarer still seems to be the GL, which goes up to 1600 ASA.
Since you, sir, seem to have or have had every rangefinder ever made... I weight you opinion heavily.
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NickTrop
Veteran
Todd.Hanz said:
I dug out the CC today. It's a sexy little beasty, and I agree that an ND is a must for this one (or Y2 if shooting BW) with 400 speed film. Mine is in great condition except the finder is a hair off at infinity and needs to be adjusted. It's more of an annoyance however, since the pics I've taken with it are razor sharp. Later this year, off it goes for a CLA.
arbib
Well-known
GSN Battery ??
GSN Battery ??
I have gas now
Does anyone make a BATTERY for the GSN. Like Wien?
Or does the camera need to be converted for a more modern one ??
GSN Battery ??
I have gas now
Does anyone make a BATTERY for the GSN. Like Wien?
Or does the camera need to be converted for a more modern one ??