Rogier
Rogier Willems
So you would think. We all love the prints of that simple portrait of our grand grand parents, the street view of two centuries ago. etc
Sparrow
Veteran
... I'm just trying to insure the kids have to make more than one trip to the dump with the negatives ... I expect they'll just sell the rest of the gear
Harry Lime
Practitioner
Long term archival storage goes beyond the interests of individuals.
Photographs are a historic record for future generations. There are countless photographs, both snapshots and formal, that have been taken over the past 150 years. They allow us to see how the world was long before we were born. What is banal today, could be important tomorrow
And then there are people like Vivian Maier.
Photographs are a historic record for future generations. There are countless photographs, both snapshots and formal, that have been taken over the past 150 years. They allow us to see how the world was long before we were born. What is banal today, could be important tomorrow
And then there are people like Vivian Maier.
Photo_Smith
Well-known
Harry there won't be a digital shooting version of Vivian Maier. Most of us know this, can you imagine someone finding a few DVD's in 2050? would they get to the sale/auction house?
I know that digital has the potential for perfect copies and less generational data loss, but how will that be achieved in someone like Maiers case?
I have loads of digital photo's sprayed all over the internet, Flickr, Pbase various cloud based storage but if I was to die today who knows where it is? Will someone keep my Pbase account alive, will Flickr last to 2050?
Long term storage isn't beyond individuals it's just become an order of magnitude harder; what my grandparents did in the 1930's that is put their photo's in an old metel Victorian hat box.
When they passed on I found lots of images from our family history:
My great grandfather and grandfather in the early 1930's
So ordinary people are interested in history, those hatboxes have no digital equivalent, I know there are many who would argue otherwise, but so far I at least remain unconvinced.
I know that digital has the potential for perfect copies and less generational data loss, but how will that be achieved in someone like Maiers case?
I have loads of digital photo's sprayed all over the internet, Flickr, Pbase various cloud based storage but if I was to die today who knows where it is? Will someone keep my Pbase account alive, will Flickr last to 2050?
Long term storage isn't beyond individuals it's just become an order of magnitude harder; what my grandparents did in the 1930's that is put their photo's in an old metel Victorian hat box.
When they passed on I found lots of images from our family history:
My great grandfather and grandfather in the early 1930's
So ordinary people are interested in history, those hatboxes have no digital equivalent, I know there are many who would argue otherwise, but so far I at least remain unconvinced.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
We'll see. I predict a growing subculture mining for lost data - similar phenomena are already firmly established around 8-bit computers, game consoles, video and synthesizers. And much sooner someone inevitably will build a DIY DVD player from Lego parts and a Arduino controller...
Sejanus.Aelianus
Veteran
I'll just add this to to the "sure, sure" list of longevity claims for media.
After all, the original claim for optical disks was that they were invulnerable to decay (that claim was made on a BBC Tomorrow's World programme back in the 'eighties). Good luck reading a first generation optical disk today.
If I thought I'd live to collect it, I'd put my money not on a medium but on a system: "the cloud". Computer networks were invented to survive massive disasters (look up ARPAnet) and the cloud is just the next logical step in spreading the risk. Once data is stored in a thousand different places, it becomes difficult to lose it. If there's only one copy, on the other hand...
After all, the original claim for optical disks was that they were invulnerable to decay (that claim was made on a BBC Tomorrow's World programme back in the 'eighties). Good luck reading a first generation optical disk today.
If I thought I'd live to collect it, I'd put my money not on a medium but on a system: "the cloud". Computer networks were invented to survive massive disasters (look up ARPAnet) and the cloud is just the next logical step in spreading the risk. Once data is stored in a thousand different places, it becomes difficult to lose it. If there's only one copy, on the other hand...
Photo_Smith
Well-known
Sevo–
I don't think we will 'see' that is the point. Nobody can see those DVD's with the interesting images from the millions of ones with trash on them; your subculture seems interesting but is more of a hope that any real ground swell.
The 8 bit consoles were all solid state, video was on tape and we have a real problem transferring those old obsolete tape formats to modern ones.
Here's some reading:
http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/cyber/overview.php
As someone who has worked trying to do this I'll tell you it's no walk in the park.
The cloud seems interesting but is no safe bet as you don't own your data, just the access to it. If the company goes bust or as happened recently with the Megaupload site the US government shuts the site down–you could lose access to all your data.
Inevitably someone will build a space station from a cornflake packet and a margerine tub, trouble is future technology is pointed in a forward looking direction, archivists are and always will be specialists and it's those people who 'might' be able to rescue those images.
Their problem will be with soaring data storage rates doubling data ever few years sorting the wheat from the chaff.
I don't think we will 'see' that is the point. Nobody can see those DVD's with the interesting images from the millions of ones with trash on them; your subculture seems interesting but is more of a hope that any real ground swell.
The 8 bit consoles were all solid state, video was on tape and we have a real problem transferring those old obsolete tape formats to modern ones.
Here's some reading:
http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/cyber/overview.php
As someone who has worked trying to do this I'll tell you it's no walk in the park.
The cloud seems interesting but is no safe bet as you don't own your data, just the access to it. If the company goes bust or as happened recently with the Megaupload site the US government shuts the site down–you could lose access to all your data.
Inevitably someone will build a space station from a cornflake packet and a margerine tub, trouble is future technology is pointed in a forward looking direction, archivists are and always will be specialists and it's those people who 'might' be able to rescue those images.
Their problem will be with soaring data storage rates doubling data ever few years sorting the wheat from the chaff.
AJShepherd
Well-known
The new Apple iMacs don't have a DVD drive. Apple CEO Tim Cook declared optical drives are for those "living in the past".
(Admittedly, I suspect the main reason for this is that Apple would have you purchase everything from their on-line store.)
Give it five years, and i reckon there won't be a single computer you can buy with an optical drive installed. Give it ten years, and you'd be lucky to find an optical drive at all.
Back stuff up to 'the cloud' sure, but what if the cloud company goes bust?
Buy external hard disks - RAID systems preferably, then replace them every few years.
With digital archiving you need to keep transferring your archive to new media or you'll find out you can no longer read it.
(Admittedly, I suspect the main reason for this is that Apple would have you purchase everything from their on-line store.)
Give it five years, and i reckon there won't be a single computer you can buy with an optical drive installed. Give it ten years, and you'd be lucky to find an optical drive at all.
Back stuff up to 'the cloud' sure, but what if the cloud company goes bust?
Buy external hard disks - RAID systems preferably, then replace them every few years.
With digital archiving you need to keep transferring your archive to new media or you'll find out you can no longer read it.
bwcolor
Veteran
DVD .. What is that? .. CD .. really what is that?
It is nice that such products exist, or are about to come to market and such material can certainly protect just the basic core of your work, but I'll wait for TB level archival storage and just keep transferring data until then.
It is nice that such products exist, or are about to come to market and such material can certainly protect just the basic core of your work, but I'll wait for TB level archival storage and just keep transferring data until then.
john_s
Well-known
Even today my young adult kids are delighted that I had taken backups of their early digital photos from the last decade. As they acquired new laptops they seemed to not bother about saving their earlier photos.
Lachie C
Member
I love the idea of long-term readable media like film. But for practical individuals the 3-2-1 rule should suffice.
3-2-1 Backup Rule
3-2-1 Backup Rule