Brian Atherton
Well-known
Apart from the Monochrom, the M10 is the only Leica digital I’ve truly felt excited about, in particular its size, simplicity, viewfinder and the ISO control.
However, I’m very rarely an early adopter, so, for me, not yet.
When I get the chance I will check it out at a retailer.
However, I’m very rarely an early adopter, so, for me, not yet.
When I get the chance I will check it out at a retailer.
willie_901
Veteran
So, terminology may matter here.
The 'sensor' is an assembly consisting of several components.
It suggest the M10's micro-lens assembly, CFA and cover glass can't be identical to the SL's. The lens registers are different.
So everyone might be right. The the engineering details and performance of the sensor bed could be identical to the SL sensor assembly. This would impact the analog signal to noise ratio and dynamic range (which would/will be excellent).
The other sensor assembly components could be designed to deliver the best possible optical performance consistent with the M mount lens resister.
Some of the sensor assembly technology could be identical to the SL's. Some technology has to be different.
Leica's SL imaging engine, Maestro II, is also used in the M10. If the CFA and cover glass assemblies are not identical, parameters used by the Maestro II image modeling algorithms would be different. This doesn't mean the algorithms themselves are different.
I'll place my bet on –*the M10 and SL sensor assemblies have more similarities than differences. I would think this is a very good thing for people who want to buy a new M digital camera.
The 'sensor' is an assembly consisting of several components.
- the sensor electronics bed: photo-diode array, ISO amplification and ADC electronics on one silicon wafer
- micro lens array
- color filter array
- cover glass: IR filter, anti-reflection coatings and protective coatings.
It suggest the M10's micro-lens assembly, CFA and cover glass can't be identical to the SL's. The lens registers are different.
So everyone might be right. The the engineering details and performance of the sensor bed could be identical to the SL sensor assembly. This would impact the analog signal to noise ratio and dynamic range (which would/will be excellent).
The other sensor assembly components could be designed to deliver the best possible optical performance consistent with the M mount lens resister.
Some of the sensor assembly technology could be identical to the SL's. Some technology has to be different.
Leica's SL imaging engine, Maestro II, is also used in the M10. If the CFA and cover glass assemblies are not identical, parameters used by the Maestro II image modeling algorithms would be different. This doesn't mean the algorithms themselves are different.
I'll place my bet on –*the M10 and SL sensor assemblies have more similarities than differences. I would think this is a very good thing for people who want to buy a new M digital camera.
cz23
-
That's pretty much how I feel. I have not had a color digital M since the M9, but this one is very appealing to me. And I'll bet it's a more refined user experience than previous digital Ms, with the thinner body and larger, brighter VF. I'm sure Tamarkin has one and I'll check it out soon.
We'll see, but I think my days of spending many thousands on a body may be over. I just don't see the benefits in my photos.
John
raid
Dad Photographer
What photos? Leica owners/users often use a Leica because they can and because it is fun to do so. Most are not depending on their photography as the main source of income. Leica cameras are often luxury items.
jarski
Veteran
So why not just lug around jammed old film M? That should fit the bill perfectly.
cz23
-
The lugging around part is okay. But then there's the film part.
raid
Dad Photographer
It does the job for many Leica users. Some people like "luxury items" in their lives. It could be a Ferrari for some, and it may be a new Leica M for others. This is good. Life has to be filled with hope for the people. Maybe one day I will get a new digital Leica. Why not!
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
You know, I was "dismissed" from x100t thread as person who asked for manual focus lens in 1195$ body with cra.., sorry, crop sensor. I was told it is impossible to implement manual focusing in the body with size and look of the Leica under 1195$ price.
So, here we have Leica (not looks like Leica) camera, with 135 format digital sensor, true (not e-mulator) RF camera with size of the film Leica. Which NOBODY ELSE makes. With info I was given in x100t thread it doesn't seems as luxury anymore!
And here some selection of young photogs, who ain't into luxury, but photography with digital Leica RF cameras:
http://blog.leica-camera.com/2017/01/07/experimenting-leica-m-d/
born in February of 1989, Leica M-D.
http://blog.leica-camera.com/2017/0...ns-with-the-leica-m-inside-londons-comic-con/
Leica M ( Typ 240), Young one.
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2014/...london-first-experiences-by-ruben-laranjeira/
28 years old, Leica M8.
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2015/01/19/my-time-with-the-wonderful-leica-m8-2-by-justin-halim/
Student took part time job to pay for М8.2.
http://blog.leica-camera.com/2014/02/20/freya-bromley-london-street-style-with-the-leica-m/
http://dewith.com/2012/a-bit-about-me/
26 years old.
https://petapixel.com/2016/05/05/arctic-back-leica-m-camera-review/
М-E - М240.
https://www.theguardian.com/artandd...2012/dec/28/leica-m-e-rangefinder-photography
Same as young lady on photo above.
So, here we have Leica (not looks like Leica) camera, with 135 format digital sensor, true (not e-mulator) RF camera with size of the film Leica. Which NOBODY ELSE makes. With info I was given in x100t thread it doesn't seems as luxury anymore!
And here some selection of young photogs, who ain't into luxury, but photography with digital Leica RF cameras:
http://blog.leica-camera.com/2017/01/07/experimenting-leica-m-d/
born in February of 1989, Leica M-D.
http://blog.leica-camera.com/2017/0...ns-with-the-leica-m-inside-londons-comic-con/
Leica M ( Typ 240), Young one.
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2014/...london-first-experiences-by-ruben-laranjeira/
28 years old, Leica M8.
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2015/01/19/my-time-with-the-wonderful-leica-m8-2-by-justin-halim/
Student took part time job to pay for М8.2.
http://blog.leica-camera.com/2014/02/20/freya-bromley-london-street-style-with-the-leica-m/
http://dewith.com/2012/a-bit-about-me/
26 years old.
https://petapixel.com/2016/05/05/arctic-back-leica-m-camera-review/
М-E - М240.
https://www.theguardian.com/artandd...2012/dec/28/leica-m-e-rangefinder-photography
Same as young lady on photo above.
Paul T.
Veteran
The new M10 looks great. So why go on about Fujis... when as we all know, we'll never get a digital Leica M and lens for $1190 new, however much we might dream of one!
Emile de Leon
Well-known
A surprising number of people on the Leica Forum..have little to no interest in purchasing this camera..
No "must have" features in the M10 worth the upgrade quite a few are expressing...
I think its a cool camera..and if I was only shooting stills..would probably get it..
But this is the same as I thought with the 262md..just a few months back..
But they put out the 262md in the larger body..instead of this smaller body..pretty slick of them.. more sales more sales..and stretch the line out forever...I guess it works for them..
I just cant get with the minor upgrades..will see what they come up with next ver 2.0 m10 w/video..if it ever happens..
No "must have" features in the M10 worth the upgrade quite a few are expressing...
I think its a cool camera..and if I was only shooting stills..would probably get it..
But this is the same as I thought with the 262md..just a few months back..
But they put out the 262md in the larger body..instead of this smaller body..pretty slick of them.. more sales more sales..and stretch the line out forever...I guess it works for them..
I just cant get with the minor upgrades..will see what they come up with next ver 2.0 m10 w/video..if it ever happens..
You know, I was "dismissed" from x100t thread as person who asked for manual focus lens in 1195$ body with cra.., sorry, crop sensor. I was told it is impossible to implement manual focusing in the body with size and look of the Leica under 1195$ price.
So, here we have Leica (not looks like Leica) camera, with 135 format digital sensor, true (not e-mulator) RF camera with size of the film Leica. Which NOBODY ELSE makes. With info I was given in x100t thread it doesn't seems as luxury anymore!
Uhm, you forgot that this Leica costs 5 times more without a lens.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
No I didn't, because I could get 35 2.8 lens for M under 50$ and it performs as I want (and I already tested it with digital M) and pay another 50$ for 50 2 lens (tested by many). Heck, I even have tested 20$ 50 3.5 which is collapsible into M body and it still work well and as I needed. It has real focus lever on it, not fuji "focus lever" on camera
True RF and OVF cost? It is your words about expensive OVF vs just EVF in x100t, not mine.
FF sensor is also extra cost. Look how much Sony charging for it and how much more Fuji is charging for FF+ sensor in announced "MF" line. How many more times comparing to this Leica, just because larger sensor size?
airfrogusmc
Veteran
At least 2 stops better in low light is not a minor upgrade in my opinion. I will probably pick one up next year. Keep the 262 and maybe sell the M-E? Or I might just pick up the M10 and keep the M-E.
I don't consider Leica any more a luxury item than I do the top o the line nicanons.
MIkhail
-
No I didn't, because I could get 35 2.8 lens for M under 50$ and it performs as I want (and I already tested it with digital M) and pay another 50$ for 50 2 lens (tested by many). Heck, I even have tested 20$ 50 3.5 which is collapsible into M body and it still work well and as I needed. It has real focus lever on it, not fuji "focus lever" on camera
True RF and OVF cost? It is your words about expensive OVF vs just EVF in x100t, not mine.
FF sensor is also extra cost. Look how much Sony charging for it and how much more Fuji is charging for FF+ sensor in announced "MF" line. How many more times comparing to this Leica, just because larger sensor size?
Our original point is that you wanted Fuji to implement a manual focus ring on the X100F like Leica did with X type 113 and the Q. They are both a lot more cash than the X100F and we pointed that out. I said at $1300 it will be hard to do what Leica does in its cameras with regard to MF. Now you are comparing it to a $6600 camera. You keep supporting our point while trying to make your own. I have no horse in the race. I've owned Leica M cameras and they are great. I've owned / own Fuji cameras and they are great. The fact remains that the cost of the product comes into play and manufacturers can only add so much to cameras at certain price points. Additionally, expecting a primarily AF camera to give you what you want cheaply is a futile endeavor.
Kent
Finally at home...
I was lucky and was invited to the event on Wednesday.
It was fantastic IMHO. The camera looks and feels great - and the first photos I have seen shot with it are amazing.
Those of you who can read German, here is my short report:
https://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/2017/01/19/ein-abend-wesentliches/
It was fantastic IMHO. The camera looks and feels great - and the first photos I have seen shot with it are amazing.
Those of you who can read German, here is my short report:
https://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/2017/01/19/ein-abend-wesentliches/
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Huss
Veteran
Any idea how that compares to the Nikon D750? I have one of those as well as the M240 and 'playing' with both last night kinda killed any urge to get anything else. Especially since I shoot film most of the time.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Why are you keep on ignoring the fact what I wrote twice how I totally understand now the price point and absolutely willing to pay more if Fuji X100 series comes with MF.
I'm already inline for x100m, where M is for Manual (focus) and More (money).
Why are you keep on ignoring the fact what I wrote twice how I totally understand now the price point and absolutely willing to pay more if Fuji X100 series comes with MF.
Sorry, I somehow missed this part.