Godfrey
somewhat colored
According to Jono Slack, there is more to the M10-P update than just cosmetic frippery:
https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-news/2018/08/leica-m10-p-jono/
I trust Jono's reviews much more than anyone else's. Not that I have any particular need or interest in buying an M10-P at the present time ... I'm quite pleased with the performance of my M-D typ 262 and continue to enjoy using it.
All the caterwauling about stratospheric ISO sensitivity and other geegaws is lost on me: I simply don't care once my equipment does what I want and performs to my satisfaction. Both the Leica M-D and the Leica CL are doing what I want and perform to my satisfaction. I'd much rather invest time and energy into doing photography than whining about the lack of the mythical perfect camera, from Leica or any other manufacturer.
G
"Equipment is transient, photographs endure."
https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-news/2018/08/leica-m10-p-jono/
I trust Jono's reviews much more than anyone else's. Not that I have any particular need or interest in buying an M10-P at the present time ... I'm quite pleased with the performance of my M-D typ 262 and continue to enjoy using it.
All the caterwauling about stratospheric ISO sensitivity and other geegaws is lost on me: I simply don't care once my equipment does what I want and performs to my satisfaction. Both the Leica M-D and the Leica CL are doing what I want and perform to my satisfaction. I'd much rather invest time and energy into doing photography than whining about the lack of the mythical perfect camera, from Leica or any other manufacturer.
G
"Equipment is transient, photographs endure."
KM-25
Well-known
From a purely philosophical standpoint I have always had a hard time paying more than $5,000 for a digital camera so I had to really think hard about dropping even $6,500 on my M10 which I can honestly say it has been worth it.
But $8K for a Leica M digital body? Are they out of their freaking minds?
But $8K for a Leica M digital body? Are they out of their freaking minds?
ptpdprinter
Veteran
I am interested in comments on the new, more silent shutter, once people have experienced it.
willie_901
Veteran
The point is not being able to use shutter times and, or apertures that produce a useful rendered image brightness at ISO 20,000.
The point is shadow region rendering will be superior at base ISO (and above). There's no difference between 8 stops of lower exposure for shadow regions in bright scenes and a very dark room where 8 stops of post-acquisition image brightening is required due to shutter time and, or DOF considerations. Under exposure levels are similar and S/N ratios are similar from about ISO 300 through 20,000.
Improvements in a sensor assembly S/N can be useful at every camera ISO setting. The M10's useful analog dynamic range is about 10 1/2 stops (engineering DR would be about 2 stops higher). Shadow regions with 7-8 stops less exposure are not rare.
Darthfeeble
But you can call me Steve
My pet peeve: Still no sensor cleaning. Ridiculous.
cz23
-
So all I have to do to "covertly capture candid moments" is remove the red dot?
The $8K secret that I wish I'd learned long ago.
John
Emile de Leon
Well-known
Lets see...added extra cotton on the shutter...put a Home Depot lookin screw on front..and a Home Depot level too..oh yeah..!
Leica is genius at milking a concept...and shearin..the sheep..! lol..
Leica is genius at milking a concept...and shearin..the sheep..! lol..
airfrogusmc
Veteran
Nikon and Canon aren't doing the same thing? They saturate the market before they upgrade with a camera that is probably a concept that is over a year old so they can get ever nickel out of their current model. At least Leica M are cameras that are not like anything the big two are making. I won't be buying an M10P and I'm not defending the price but I do really like my M 10 (I also paid about what KM25 paid) and a camera like the MM or M-D will probably only be made by Leica.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
No manufacturer is ever going to satisfy the bulk of you no matter what they do, so reading all your pent-up angst over a camera's details and/or price is purely for the amusement value; there's no information value in it at all.
Sadly, there's little joy in it either.
G
Sadly, there's little joy in it either.
G
Out to Lunch
Ventor
When interested in silent shutters, have a look at the Fuji X-H1. You can almost get 5 of these for the price of one Leica M10-P.
ptpdprinter
Veteran
I am interested from a curiosity sense, not a purchasing sense. I use an XE2/XT2.
raid
Dad Photographer
I wish they had by now an effective sensor cleaner built in.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
$8K for a Leica is not news to me.
I believe six years ago I paid $8K for my Monochrom. Some of the best money I ever spent. I still own and love this camera. Kinda primitive and basic, and very much like a film camera (no video). The charm of the original Monochrom is its crudeness.
When is a M10M coming out?
Cal
I believe six years ago I paid $8K for my Monochrom. Some of the best money I ever spent. I still own and love this camera. Kinda primitive and basic, and very much like a film camera (no video). The charm of the original Monochrom is its crudeness.
When is a M10M coming out?
Cal
Fjäll
■̷̛̈́̉̓́̽&
Would you consider upgrading to an M10 Monochrom?
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
F,
I would have remorse if I didn't keep my Monochrom. It is an important camera for me. I know and realize the M-246 crushes it in so many ways as far as being more advanced, faster, better high ISO...
I do happen to love the CCD rendering which I think is novel, and again I think that one day many others will appreciate and embrace the basic simplicity and primitive nature.
It already is kind of a cult camera that people either love or hate. I love mine warts and all. It is still a great camera and its six years old (sensor replaced in just 12 weeks along with the "free" overhaul and recovering). My original covering was worn smooth is some areas from my fingertips and use of a grip. The anodize is silvery from heavy use especially along the edges.
My hope is that Leica continues to follow the trend and like from the M-240 developed a M-246, except this time goes from M10 to M10P to M10M. I certainly would buy one.
Understand that for color I shoot a SL, and if Leica created a Monochrom SL I certainly would have to buy one. A SLM is not so likely, but a M10M...
So in the end I would buy a new monochome Leica as an addition.
Also know that I still shoot and own my film Leicas.
Cal
Huss
Veteran
I think there is a large, albeit silent contingent of Leica owners (not users..) who like the price hike, because it helps reinforce financial class boundaries.
Only $8000? Well at least that is over twice the price of a proletariat Nikon D850, but let's hope for some special edition models that push the asking price over $10,000.
This is why Leica spends money of glitzy showrooms, but only has one service tech for the entire USA. You're not really meant to take pics with them, but use them as a demonstration of wealth. Taking photos? We hire people to do that for us!
Huss
Veteran
Huh, missed this bit:
"The camera has a body the same thickness as an M7 and has abandoned video (nobody seemed to notice) and much more controversially the level gauge of the M240."
I use that a lot in my M100 (M240 anniversary edition). I had no idea they took content like that OUT of the M10. That makes the M10 a complete deal killer for me. So now I have to pay $8000 to get what I already had in my $3500 M240?
The cynic on me would say that was a deliberate de-contenting move so that Leica can then release an updated model with that put back in as if that was now an advancement. Of course for much more money.
Yeah. No.
"The camera has a body the same thickness as an M7 and has abandoned video (nobody seemed to notice) and much more controversially the level gauge of the M240."
I use that a lot in my M100 (M240 anniversary edition). I had no idea they took content like that OUT of the M10. That makes the M10 a complete deal killer for me. So now I have to pay $8000 to get what I already had in my $3500 M240?
The cynic on me would say that was a deliberate de-contenting move so that Leica can then release an updated model with that put back in as if that was now an advancement. Of course for much more money.
Yeah. No.
ptpdprinter
Veteran
Leica raised the price of the M10 from $6500 to $7300 earlier this year, so the price of the M10-P represents only a 10% premium.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Huss,
Certainly Leica as a brand is a status symbol, but comparing a DSLR with a rangefinder is a bit of a jump for me. Pretty much not the same.
The other half who owns and uses lots of legacy glass is certainly paying the premium for other reasons.
My experience with Leica service has not been so bad as your experiences. My Monochrom sensor replacement took 12 weeks when I was told 10 weeks, but I sent in my camera in a December and as we all know Leica has a holiday shutdown. I even got a shipping label with insurance so pretty much the cost to me was zero.
Also about two years ago I asked to borrow an autofocus lens for my SL. The 50 Lux I had pre-ordered, and I need an AF lens to cover NYC Fashion Week. It cost nothing to ask, but Leica suprised and lent me a AF 24-90 SL lens for nearly three weeks. Again zero cost to me.
When I go to the Leica Store in SoHo the level of support I get is amazing.
Leica gets a bit of a bad rap for all those that waited till the last minute. The crazy long waits for a sensor replacement towards the end of the program is partially due to those who waited till the very end. Procrastinators need to take some responsibility here. I for one took advantage of this free repair and overhaul, but also know that I too did not respond upon the initial offer, and responded about a year later. If I had gotten caught up with the log-jam at the end would not this be my fault?
When I sent my Rollie 3.5F Whiteface to Harry Fleenor and the camera took 12 weeks to get overhauled I didn't mind. When I send a camera to Sherry and it takes two months it is no big deal. Untill I sent my Monochrom in for sensor replacement I had no issues other than the complaint that using continuous would lock up the camera. The obvious workaround is don't shoot with the camera in continuous mode.
The point I made about my Monochrom costing $8K is now, six years later, it is still a great camera, no buyer's remorse for me, and again it was some of the best money I ever spent.
Cal
ptpdprinter
Veteran
Leica owners did not wait until the last minute or procrastinate! It's not their fault that Leica abruptly terminated its guarantee and every owner had 120 days to submit their camera for evaluation/repair so they wouldn't be left holding the bag.