"M10" Price Impact

[Emile de Leon]

Originally Posted by Emile de Leon View Post

M240...
$2750..if not lower...for cash deal..local...in a few months...if not sooner..
And put $2500 in front of them at point of sale..and trust me..they will take it..no questions asked..

I always find attitudes like this amusing.

Same here...that people actually think that other people are..mentally..just like them...in a cash sale..and wont budge on price..
Cash is king..period..most people are aware of this..and..I've been in retail for 23 years now..and know what people buy or dont buy..and for how much..esp when cash is concerned..
People are going to dump their m240s like hot cakes..and even moreso when other "skinny" models are released..
Sorry to tell you this boys..your expensive M240s are going down...no matter how much you may be in denial about it..
..there is a new skinny gal in town..lol..and she aint takin no prisoners..

 

[Ko.Fe.]

May I ask why?

Sorry, I missed this question. 11 MP is enough for any possible print I could imagine to be able to print, afford.
JPEG1 is longer story, but in short I know after years and hundred thousands pictures how to take it right.

 

[Huss]

Same here...that people actually think that other people are..mentally..just like them...in a cash sale..and wont budge on price..
Cash is king..period..most people are aware of this..and..I've been in retail for 23 years now..and know what people buy or dont buy..and for how much..esp when cash is concerned..

Exactly cash is king. It is the only thing that is accepted in a private sale. So why do you think showing up with cash would make any difference? It is the only thing expected and accepted.

As for the M240 value plummetting - that is natural and happens to all mfgs.
I recently bought a perfect Nikon D750 for $1100 used. This is a current production camera, and I got it for 58% of the new price.
I bought my M100 M240 as a demo for $4200 a few years ago. It originally was $8200 new. See a pattern here?

I'm looking forward to your comments 4 years from now when the M11 is released, and you gloat as to how prices of the M10 have plummeted. These things are disposable items, not investment pieces.

Do you also go on car sites and post how someone's 4 year old car is now worth 40% of its new cost?
😀

 

[Huss]

Here is what I can pay for scanning, when I care to hsve it done:

http://linhoff.com/film-processing.html

Holy moly $33 for dev/scan for one roll of 120 C41 film?!!!

That's about double the cost of the excellent pro labs I use - northcoastphoto and thefindlab

 

[Talus]

An M9 sold in the classifieds, with a replaced sensor, last week for $2450. It sold right away. As luck would have it, there was another M9 in the classifieds that needed sensor replacement. It was the same price. AFAIK, its still available. So, for an M9 in good shape $2450 is a very good price.

I don't think we are going to see $2500 for an M240, or $2000 for the M9, for awhile...

Yeah, prices are dropping a bit. Quite a few digital Ms showing up in the craigslist in the NYC area near me too. I could see M9s in that range. The M240 might take a little longer as people that have been waiting for for their first digital M (or that are unimpressed by the M10) are going to be scooping a lot of these up. I'd say by late Summer/Fall the 240s will be at $2500.

 

[Bill Clark]

That's about double the cost of the excellent pro labs I use - northcoastphoto and thefindlab

Maybe I wasn't clear but I was pointing out how many develop and scans could be made compared with the cost of the M-10.

That's great you seem to have a less expensive place.

At any rate, lots of develop and scans can be made compared to the investment required for an M-10.

Thanks.

 

[Huss]

Maybe I wasn't clear but I was pointing out how many develop and scans could be made compared with the cost of the M-10.

That's great you seem to have a less expensive place.

At any rate, lots of develop and scans can be made compared to the investment required for an M-10.

Thanks.

Yes but if one compared using your place to 'mine', using yours would be the equivalent to paying $13,000 for an M10.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Maybe I wasn't clear but I was pointing out how many develop and scans could be made compared with the cost of the M-10.

That's great you seem to have a less expensive place.

At any rate, lots of develop and scans can be made compared to the investment required for an M-10.

Thanks.

It depends. Let's say I'm selling all of the film gear and getting 6500$ M10.
My bw film photography is about 2500 frames per year. Which is about seventy 36 frames rolls per year. And this is what I'm getting from four bulks of 30.5m 50$ bw film. 200$ for bw film per year, plus 50$ for chemicals per year and 135 scanner for 400$. 6500-400=6100/200+50=24 years of bw film. If we take CLA for every five years at 250@ it is 6100-1000=5100, which is still 20 years of bulk bw film developed and scanned at home.
Now, if it is in color and no home processing/scanning, just getting digital image as with M10 . Cheap color film is 3$ now. Processing and scanning is something like 15$. About 20$ per roll of film to get it as files in quality, not just low res JPEG1 scans. 70x20=1400.
6500/1400=4.6. Less than five years. If film equal to digital. M10 gets pictures in color and it is up to you to convert it in bw or use it in color.
But after five years M10 will still cost 3000$ if you want to sell it and be done with it.

http://www.downtowncamera.com/photofinishing-services/colour-film/
I used "Developing and Scan to TIFF – 2048 x 3072 Econo" for price reference.

 

[jsrockit]

At any rate, lots of develop and scans can be made compared to the investment required for an M-10.

Not a really good comparison since these scans typically suck... badly. Now, it can get you a lot of development and a decent scanner.

 

[CameraQuest]

2/19/17

To date M10 deliveries are way behind the orders.
One dealer had 25+ M10's on order and has only taken delivery of 6 M10s!

So, until M10s are plentiful on dealer shelves (months away)
we will likely not see their full impact on M240 family prices.

Stephen

 

[Huss]

LeicaStore LA told me their waiting list is 200 deep. With zero in stock.

 

[Chubberino]

Still waiting, lol.

 

[jsrockit]

It's a nice camera, but waits are typical for Leica. Now, where is that 50mm Q? 😉

 

[airfrogusmc]

Tamarkin here in Chicago I was told that the waiting list is now 250. Probably well over a year.

 

[Chubberino]

It's a nice camera, but waits are typical for Leica. Now, where is that 50mm Q? 😉

Sorry, I was laughing at the expected price drops on M8's and M9's as predicted and it's not happening.

 

[Gregm61]

Tamarkin here in Chicago I was told that the waiting list is now 250. Probably well over a year.

That's just about right for me. I'm slowly working my way to be in a position to buy one early next year so when the opportunity presents itself, I can move. Until then, my M262 is doing quite nice. The next few months I do need to consider selling the M9 to M9-P conversion.

 

[airfrogusmc]

I'm saving my $$$$ for one and wont be ready until next year. I could sell my M-E but I think I am going to keep it as well as my 262 and add the M 10.

 

[Vobluda]

If anyone would start negotiating price with me for whatever I am selling after we meet in person and not in advance via phone or email I am just slamming the door into that person face.

M240...
$2750..if not lower...for cash deal..local...in a few months...if not sooner..
And put $2500 in front of them at point of sale..and trust me..they will take it..no questions asked..

 

[hap]

M10

M10

It depends. Let's say I'm selling all of the film gear and getting 6500$ M10.
My bw film photography is about 2500 frames per year. Which is about seventy 36 frames rolls per year. And this is what I'm getting from four bulks of 30.5m 50$ bw film. 200$ for bw film per year, plus 50$ for chemicals per year and 135 scanner for 400$. 6500-400=6100/200+50=24 years of bw film. If we take CLA for every five years at 250@ it is 6100-1000=5100, which is still 20 years of bulk bw film developed and scanned at home.
Now, if it is in color and no home processing/scanning, just getting digital image as with M10 . Cheap color film is 3$ now. Processing and scanning is something like 15$. About 20$ per roll of film to get it as files in quality, not just low res JPEG1 scans. 70x20=1400.
6500/1400=4.6. Less than five years. If film equal to digital. M10 gets pictures in color and it is up to you to convert it in bw or use it in color.
But after five years M10 will still cost 3000$ if you want to sell it and be done with it.

http://www.downtowncamera.com/photofinishing-services/colour-film/
I used "Developing and Scan to TIFF – 2048 x 3072 Econo" for price reference.

First....this downtown photo looks like a scanning winner , especially if you like very high res and TIFF.

Second....I stayed on the fence for as long as I could stand regarding a digital M. The short stsory....I bought a 240 and not an M9. the price delta a bit over 700. Total price including PP and shipping.....approx 3100. Mint example or very close to it.

could I have saved some money looking for a more "used" copy? Perhaps. If it is worth 2600 in six months....will I cry the blues? Hell no. But I kind of doubt the premise. I just want to know that they will fix if broken.

 

[fenixv8]

Leica Camera announced today they will end the free CCD sensors replacement for M9/M9-P/M-E/Monochrom cameras that are older than 5 years on August 15th, 2017. After that date, Leica will continue to replace the sensor only in cases where the cameras have been purchased as new products within the last five years. For cameras older than 5 years, the sensor replacement will still be available for 982 euros (around $1000). Here are the details:


Latest information concerning the CCD sensors of the Leica M9 / M9-P / M Monochrom and M-E camera models
Following the successfully implemented and largely completed replacement program for corroded sensors that affected M9, M9-P, M Monochrom and M-E camera models, we would now like to inform you about how this program will be handled in the future.

Until August 15, 2017, we will continue to offer free replacement of sensors for these camera models if they are affected by the corrosion problem. This will also apply after August 16, 2017 for the models listed above, but only in cases where the cameras have been purchased as new products within the last five years.

From August 16, 2017, and until further notice, we will offer our customers the following new program for all camera models mentioned above that were purchased more than five years ago. Here, the customer pays a portion of the replacement costs for the affected CCD sensor amounting to 982 euros (825 euros plus 19% VAT). In addition to this we also offer you a free general overhaul* of your Leica M camera and a one year warranty in line with the same terms as for new products. This offer expresses our commitment to conserving the value of your camera.

We have also revised our upgrade offers with more attractive terms for our customers. Instead of a sensor replacement, we offer our customers the alternative option of sending us their camera affected by sensor corrosion as partial payment for the purchase of selected Leica M camera models of the Typ 240 generation at even more attractive terms. Leica Customer Care will be pleased to inform and advise interested customers about the terms and conditions of the upgrade offer.

With regard to the above, we would like to remind you that the replacement of CCD sensors and the upgrade offers apply only to cameras confirmed to be affected by this problem, and only to the models of the Leica M-System we have listed above. Preventive replacement of sensors is not included in this program.

*The general overhaul of the Leica M-camera includes the following items:

Cleaning and overhaul of the shutter cocking mechanisms
Cleaning and maintenance/repair of the multifunction wheel
Cleaning of the main switch and shutter speed dial
Adjustment of the baseplate locking system
Refurbishing of engravings
Renewal of the protective film on the baseplate
Maintenance/repair of viewfinder displays
Q&A:
HOW CAN I FIND OUT WHETHER MY LEICA M IS MORE THAN FIVE YEARS OLD?
The date on which you purchased your camera as a new product applies. The sales receipt serves as proof of the date of purchase. If you no longer have your sales receipt, the age of the camera will be determined from its serial number. In this case, the date on which it was supplied to the dealer applies.

WHICH POINT IN TIME IS USED FOR DETERMINING WHETHER MY CAMERA IS WITHIN THE PERIOD DESIGNATED FOR THE FULL GOODWILL ARRANGEMENT?
The date on which the defect was reported to Leica Camera AG applies. In each concrete case, a check of the camera by Leica Customer Care is required to prove that the problem is due to the corresponding sensor defect. This check can be made by sending the camera or a suitable test exposure to Leica Customer Care and subsequent checking of the camera by specialist personnel at Leica.

WHAT CAN I EXPECT TO PAY IF I DECIDE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE UPGRADE OPTION INSTEAD OF HAVING MY CAMERA REPAIRED?
Leica Customer Care can provide concrete prices for your upgrade wishes on request.

CAN I ALSO UPGRADE TO A LEICA M10?
Due to the extremely high demand for the new Leica M10, this model is excluded from the upgrade programme. Only the direct successors of the Leica M9 listed below are available as options in the upgrade programme:
• Leica M (Typ 240)
• Leica M-P (Typ 240)
• Leica M Monochrom (Typ 246)