M2

[vrgard]

But those are precisely the reasons why one would prefer an M4 above an M2.
- 135 mm frame extra! It's not really a frame, just four unobtrusive, small, hardly noticeble indicators for the corners of the frame.
- Angled rewind allows for much faster and more comfortable rewinding.
- Build. I always understood that it was the pinnacle of the handmade, brass mechanical Wetzlar Ms.

And what about the quick film loading and the self-resetting film counter (behind glass again, like on the M3).

OK, I agree on the plastic inlaid levers and the angled wind on lever, but you can replace them with the M2-style ones.

Thanks, HuubL, for pointing out why I love my M4 so much. Other than the minor plastic bits it seems to be the best of all worlds.

-Randy

 

[phatnev]

I cant really think of anything the M2 doesnt have that I need, I honestly love just holding it, I dont really need to shoot, haha but I always remind myself I need to get better and experience is the only way.

 

[ernstk]

But those are precisely the reasons why one would prefer an M4 above an M2.
- 135 mm frame extra! It's not really a frame, just four unobtrusive, small, hardly noticeble indicators for the corners of the frame.
- Angled rewind allows for much faster and more comfortable rewinding.
- Build. I always understood that it was the pinnacle of the handmade, brass mechanical Wetzlar Ms.

And what about the quick film loading and the self-resetting film counter (behind glass again, like on the M3).

OK, I agree on the plastic inlaid levers and the angled wind on lever, but you can replace them with the M2-style ones.

I have both an M4 and an M2. The M2 is unquestionably better built. It's denser, more solid and operates with a tangibly different feel to the M4.

The viewfinder is also a bit crisper and brighter. I agree that the 135mm framelines really don't intrude that much. The film load is neither here nor there and the angled rewind doesn't add much. The self resetting film counter is an advantage, as I often forget with my M2.

Overall, in terms of functionality there isn't much to choose between them but in build quality there does seem to be a difference.

Regards
Ernst

 

[rxmd]

But those are precisely the reasons why one would prefer an M4 above an M2.
- 135 mm frame extra! It's not really a frame, just four unobtrusive, small, hardly noticeble indicators for the corners of the frame.
- Angled rewind allows for much faster and more comfortable rewinding.
- Build. I always understood that it was the pinnacle of the handmade, brass mechanical Wetzlar Ms.

No, the pinnacle is the M5. Incidentally it also has the best rewind mechanism of all the M's, and the 135mm frame corners serve the very useful extra purpose of delimiting the metering area for 35mm lenses. Everybody needs an M5

I would even prefer a M5 with a dead meter to any M[234].

Philipp

 

[HuubL]

I have both an M4 and an M2. The M2 is unquestionably better built. It's denser, more solid and operates with a tangibly different feel to the M4.

Well, let's see at the end of this week when I hope my M2 will arrive. I'll the first to admit when I think the M2 is better, but I can hardly imagine anything nicer to work with than my M4.

And then I apparently have to start looking for a nice M5 A chrome one as that's my favorite RF color

 

[rxmd]

And then I apparently have to start looking for a nice M5 A chrome one as that's my favorite RF color

As I said, everybody needs an M5

Did I mention that there's a chrome 2-lug version on eBay currently for 470 EUR, or 530 EUR Buy-it-now? (330163196313) :angel:

Philipp

 

[vrgard]

I have both an M4 and an M2. The M2 is unquestionably better built. It's denser, more solid and operates with a tangibly different feel to the M4.

The viewfinder is also a bit crisper and brighter. I agree that the 135mm framelines really don't intrude that much. The film load is neither here nor there and the angled rewind doesn't add much. The self resetting film counter is an advantage, as I often forget with my M2.

Overall, in terms of functionality there isn't much to choose between them but in build quality there does seem to be a difference.

Regards
Ernst

That's very interesting to read, Ernst, since my M4 feels every bit as solidly built as my M3.

-Randy

 

[ernstk]

That's very interesting to read, Ernst, since my M4 feels every bit as solidly built as my M3.

-Randy

I'm wondering if there's a difference due to the fact that the M4 is black paint and the M2 is chrome? There is definitely a difference in how they feel, in favour of the M2.

Ernst

 

[HuubL]

As I said, everybody needs an M5

Did I mention that there's a chrome 2-lug version on eBay currently for 470 EUR, or 530 EUR Buy-it-now? (330163196313) :angel:

Philipp

Ooooff, tempting! The camera looks nice, it is in Greece, so no import duties for me.... But, I think I'm going to be in deeeepdeep trouble with my not insignificant other if, after the M2, I buy another "cheapo" M in one weekend ;-))

 

[vrgard]

I'm wondering if there's a difference due to the fact that the M4 is black paint and the M2 is chrome? There is definitely a difference in how they feel, in favour of the M2.

Ernst

I don't know, Ernst, since my M4 is chrome just like my M3. But I don't know why that would make a difference either way. Maybe I'm not understanding the point you're raising about the fact that your M4 is black paint. Can you elaborate a bit on that?

-Randy

 

[ernstk]

I don't know, Ernst, since my M4 is chrome just like my M3. But I don't know why that would make a difference either way. Maybe I'm not understanding the point you're raising about the fact that your M4 is black paint. Can you elaborate a bit on that?

-Randy

Well, the layers of chrome must be heavier than the layers of paint? It feels like the BP body is more resonant than the chrome. Feels less dense and less well damped. Just feels lighter. It's hard to describe but if you had both in your hand, you'd recognise it.

Regards
Ernst

 

[mike goldberg]

Thanks to Stephen & Tom for opening this fascinating Thread! Thirty-five years ago, I was a working PJ and wanted an M2. A prominent Tel Aviv used dealer had none, yet luck was with me. A guy walked in to the shop wanting to sell one, and he did NOT like the deal offered. Sensing my interest, he was waiting for me when I exited the store.

I bought the M2 for around $330- in 1972, and it has been a "love affair" ever since. It's a 1965 model, with the little lever for Rewind. There are body rubs near the strap lugs and dings here and there. Like Tom, I'm left-eye dominant, however I'm blessed, in that I don't wear glasses for distance.

Tom highlighted the feel of pressing the M2's mechanical release button. I know of no other mechanical camera with this feel. The spring action is just right, and one learns at what point the shutter will release.

Talk about a rugged camera!... For sure, I rammed the thumb wind "home" 10,000 times and more. Tho' I love my Bessa R, when I wind & cock, I think about it and take it easy. When I quit PJ for health reasons, I had the M2 CLA'd at the best local repair shop in Tel Aviv at the time, the Elafant brothers.

The Summaron 35/2.8 that came with the M2 has been repaired twice... once in the UK for looseness in the mount, and once in Tel Aviv for grease stuck in the focusing collar. Having used Tri-x [and now Tmax] for most of my "photographic life," I can guestimate exposure with the M2+35/2.8 combination fairly accurately.

Again, I want to appreciate the classic camera legacy aspects of our Forum, and the substantial contributions of Stephen, Tom and others.

Cheers...

 

[kalokeri]

Thanks for your story, Mike.

There must be a reason for the M2 being loved that much by so many people ( I know there are as many people who swear the M3 is the ultimate, or the M4 or some other camera).

I found my M2 two years ago in a local store. I was looking for one build in 1963, the year I was born. I found a cheap but rugged, damaged and repaired one which seemed to be okay technically, took it to Solms myself for check & repair and have used it with growing empathy since it came back. Though I use other cameras, I have a special "relationship" to the M2.

Thomas

 

[mike goldberg]

Having posted my 2-cents worth, I've gone back to read other posts...
I like Tom's Land Rover metraphor:

Like the M2, you never doubt that it would make it to your destination.

My PJ career ended with a divorce and wandering, around the time the autofocus behemoth Canon's & Nikons were in Fashion. Yes... fashion in photography;
electronics were in. Then, for years it was the megapixel wars in digital, more recently the ISO wars, and now it's IS [image stabilized lenses]. And, I'm not against digital. When Ruben brought me into RFF in May 2006, he told me, "R/F is in."

The above discussion reminds me that I have a magnificent tool, the M2;
it is shouting, "Use me!"

Cheers

 

[literiter]

About 26 years ago I purchased a M2, with a 35mm lens and a case. At the time my only other camera was a Pentax Spotmatic. I paid very little for the M2 so perhaps I didn't value the camera like my Pentax. The M2 languished in a cupboard for a few years.

Eventually I went on a 1 week canoeing trip, and thought the M2 would be camera to capture the occasional picture. Rough and ready. If it was lost, well, no big deal.

I used it rather awkwardly, at first, I'm afraid. It was hard to load, no meter etc. Sunny 16 and take off my glasses to see the whole frame.

It took that trip to realize what I had. Many shots were taken in the evening around the camp fire, hand held, poor light.

I began using the camera after that. In fact I used it a lot. I still use it ( because I know how to). I'm a little more careful now, less cavalier with it.

I have other cameras now; a crappy little digital, Nikons, Hasselblad and a M4-P. The work is spread out more.

I occasioned on a young fellow earlier this summer when I was hiking in the back country not far from my home. He had the new M8. His pack was on the ground, his patient girlfriend waited for him as he panned the area like he was watering the garden with it.

I asked him how many shots had he taken. "About 200 in the last hour." he said. I'd taken about 5 that day with my old M2. I hope it works for him.

 

[Tom A]

Mike, the M2 is a "choice" camera. I keep a kit at hand for people to try out. It is very basic kit, a 35/2 and a 50f2 (I am a bit short on 90's at the moment so they have to beg a bit to get one). A quick lesson in how to load it and basic functions (thats all the M2 has anyway!). The "borrower" usually goes a way for a week with pockets bulging with Tri-X. Upon return there are usually two reactions, either the "I cant stand it. I dont know how to focus it and I cant load it!" These are usually from SLR users, The other response is "Can I keep it, will you take children/wife etc as a trade". The split is about 50/50! I tell them to find their own camera/lens kit.
The M2 is rugged, simple and it takes pictures. It does not perform a multi task operation when you press the button and you can stare at the back of it for hours without seeing a single image! I love watchig digital shooters "chimping" to see if they got the shot, while in front of them the really interesting things are happening! With the M2 you might have to live in suspense until the films came out of the tanks, but at least you got the second or third shot that counted.
Being a left eye shooter I also used to use the Leicavit MP's. A lever sharp enough to perform appendectomies and a single action clutch that had a penchant for failing. When my last one died in the mid 80's I decided to make my own, initially for the M4P/MP but I have also made a small run of these for the M2.

 

[dcsang]

Viva La Revolucion!
Viva La M2 !!



Dave

 

[Harry Lime]

Tom highlighted the feel of pressing the M2's mechanical release button. I know of no other mechanical camera with this feel. The spring action is just right, and one learns at what point the shutter will release.

I second that observation. There is something special about the release of the M2 that is different and better than other M bodies, including lets say the M4. It is crisper, the amount of resistance is perfect and you know exactly where the release point is. It certainly is better than any other camera I have used.

No matter how you cut it, it's a great camera. The only thing that really bothers me about it is the spool, because it slows me down a little, but I supose if you really wanted to you could have someone like DAG install a M4 type take-up tulip.

I also wish the prism wasn't glued with Canadian balsam, but I if it does go someday I'll have it re-cemented with a proper adhesive.

 

[Marc-A.]

The M2 is rugged, simple and it takes pictures.

That's the definitive M2 definition!!!
I love my M2 for its simplicity and reliability. You set the shutter speed, you frame your subject, you release the button ... bingo!

It does not perform a multi task operation when you press the button and you can stare at the back of it for hours without seeing a single image! I love watchig digital shooters "chimping" to see if they got the shot, while in front of them the really interesting things are happening!

Yep, that's always funny.

 

[vrgard]

I don't wish to challenge anyone here but I don't understand something. Why would there by any difference in the shutter release of an M2 versus an M3 or an M4. Now mind you, I have an M3 and an M4 but not an M2. So clearly I have not experienced this difference. And I really don't mean to say that those who feel that there is a difference are wrong. It's just that I was not aware that there was any internal mechanical difference between the shutter mechanisms of these cameras to explain why that would be so. And, admittedly, I am definitely no expert on these cameras and, instead, am just a happy user of them. But I would be interested to learn more if anyone has any explanation to support the view expressed here that there is a difference in the shutter release feel. Anyone care to explain or enlighten me?

Thanks,
Randy