ccstearns
Member
So, I don't really use the video and have had the Live View off. About a month ago I dropped the dang camera :bang: (it's like the only camera I've ever dropped) and it smashed the lens filter and some nicks here there. The camera, aside from dust, seems 100%. The lens really took the hit (Youxin repaired) and said the lens was largely fine with some minor adjusting as well as pulling off the horror story looking filter.
Toady, boredom struck and I used the Live View and noticed something I do not recall before. In dim light, I can see what I think is the rolling shutter, horizontal lines moving vertically through the frame. In bright light this is not visible. This corresponds to recording video but never appears in stills.
Video here (sorry for the NPR in the background).
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15b4YikyBhMUBnjpeIf7QVjDcSneuuzL8/view?usp=sharing
SO. I did break my camera too?
Toady, boredom struck and I used the Live View and noticed something I do not recall before. In dim light, I can see what I think is the rolling shutter, horizontal lines moving vertically through the frame. In bright light this is not visible. This corresponds to recording video but never appears in stills.
Video here (sorry for the NPR in the background).
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15b4YikyBhMUBnjpeIf7QVjDcSneuuzL8/view?usp=sharing
SO. I did break my camera too?
d__b
Well-known
I can't access the video. But if it you're using live view in artificial lighting it can be quite normal to see the rolling shutter due to the artificial light "switching on and off" at around 60Hz due to the alternating current and the rolling shutter of the camera. You won't see it in a photo if the shutter speed is longer than 1/60 or if it's using the mechanical shutter.
arseniii
Well-known
If you rely on your camera for professional work and you dropped it then you need to send it to Leica for an overhaul. My personal policy (especially with digital) is to always send it to the specialist even if there is not visible miss-function at first.
I don't think rolling shutter will stop you from taking pictures and I don't have M240 to comment if this is normal or not. But I'd recommend getting it checked anyways.
I don't think rolling shutter will stop you from taking pictures and I don't have M240 to comment if this is normal or not. But I'd recommend getting it checked anyways.
ccstearns
Member
@d__b thank you the rolling shutter/ artificial light makes total sense and I completely skipped that.
@ arseniii totally agree and will but I'm currently in a spot where I cannot send it to Leica for the very long time they need it but after July, I can and will
Fortunately, I think the still side is fine and thus (now) think the camera is solid but smart to have 3K investment checked nonetheless.
@ arseniii totally agree and will but I'm currently in a spot where I cannot send it to Leica for the very long time they need it but after July, I can and will
Fortunately, I think the still side is fine and thus (now) think the camera is solid but smart to have 3K investment checked nonetheless.
willie_901
Veteran
I also suspect the artifacts you see with the rolling shutter are due to aliasing between the shutter rate and the light source.
Using Live View in different light sources could settle the matter.
Using Live View in different light sources could settle the matter.
rulnacco
Well-known
I can't see the video either--but d__b is totally correct--artificial lighting cycles at 50-60 Hz, as the alternating current changes direction. This is especially noticeable with fluorescent lighting, where both the brightness and color of the light cycle at a pace that's too rapid for our brains to detect, but which is easily visible to various kinds of cameras--and will give you the rolling shutter effect. (Which is why I *hate* shooting basketball under standard fluorescents--with a high shutter speed, frequently one half your photo has a green color cast, and the other has a magenta cast. Royal pain in the butt to correct for properly.)
So, particularly if you *don't* notice the effect outside (the sun *doesn't* cycle after all), I'd think your live view system is just fine.
So, particularly if you *don't* notice the effect outside (the sun *doesn't* cycle after all), I'd think your live view system is just fine.
rulnacco
Well-known
Aaaaand, here is a screenshot (scroll down a bit) of another M240 user who was a bit scared at first to discover exactly the same effect on *his* camera https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/273214-live-view-exposure-preview/. Nothing to worry about.
Larry H-L
Well-known
Sounds like your live view is fine.
Since the camera was dropped, I would put the camera on a tripod and make certain that the rangefinder is still accurate. You could do this by shooting wide open and then comparing rangefinder focus vs. live view focus.
Also check in the corners of images to make sure the field looks absolutely flat. Dropping can put the lens mount out of square with the film/sensor, cause one side of an image to appear sharper than the other side.
Since the camera was dropped, I would put the camera on a tripod and make certain that the rangefinder is still accurate. You could do this by shooting wide open and then comparing rangefinder focus vs. live view focus.
Also check in the corners of images to make sure the field looks absolutely flat. Dropping can put the lens mount out of square with the film/sensor, cause one side of an image to appear sharper than the other side.
ccstearns
Member
Thank you all for the helpful and friendly insights here, very much appreciated.
A confession I have to really own/utter is that I have been a die hard DEDICATED film shooter since I was 16 (seriously) and 30 years later I'm rather quickly shifting to fully digital. I have a hybrid process ~ film to digital output, probably haven't made darkroom print since 2014. I teach, this keeps me learning and understanding all process BUT things like Live View remain a bit a foreign, honestly I find the terminology somewhere between funny and misleading (Live View is the...Organic Finder....what?).
@Larry H-L I will give that a-go, that's a good test that should be done periodically anyway. and @rulnacco since I'm immigrating from Film-landia the concept of lighting Hz effecting images is truly mind blowing and makes so much sense. Too bad there isn't a RAW slider for that too.
A confession I have to really own/utter is that I have been a die hard DEDICATED film shooter since I was 16 (seriously) and 30 years later I'm rather quickly shifting to fully digital. I have a hybrid process ~ film to digital output, probably haven't made darkroom print since 2014. I teach, this keeps me learning and understanding all process BUT things like Live View remain a bit a foreign, honestly I find the terminology somewhere between funny and misleading (Live View is the...Organic Finder....what?).
@Larry H-L I will give that a-go, that's a good test that should be done periodically anyway. and @rulnacco since I'm immigrating from Film-landia the concept of lighting Hz effecting images is truly mind blowing and makes so much sense. Too bad there isn't a RAW slider for that too.
Larry H-L
Well-known
“Live view” refers to using the “live” image from the camera’s rear LCD display, using it as you would for recording video, but in still photo mode.