M262 vs M10

[PatrickT]

I have an M9 that I love the output from, but am finding some of its limitations, dynamic range, shutter sound, and a few other things bothersome and limiting. Some of these are part of the charm of the camera (like the limited dynamic range and limited high ISO), which is why I want to keep it alongside anything else I get.

I am considering getting either an M262 or an M10 to compliment the M9 and am torn on which route to go.

Here is what I value:
* Simplicity
* Great out-of-camera color (with the M9 I usually just tweak the white balance in LR and off I go, which I like)
* A pure rangefinder experience

I like that the M262 is a very simple camera, with no live view, a simple top plate, and allegedly great M420-era color. I don't love how thick it is.

On the other hand, I like that the M10 is thinner, more modern, might last longer, and has live view for the few times I might need it. I don't love the ISO knob (I'd never use it).

I realize that the "rational" choice is the M10, but it feels like my head might want the M262. If I'm going to keep the M9, that could ultimately serve as my "simple" camera, and the M10 could be the one that's a bit more advanced with the conveniences when I need them.

I think my dream would be the M10-R in black paint, but I don't think I can afford that.

Any advice from those that have owned both the M262 and M10?

 

[Miles.]

It looks like you’re in the Bay Area — I would highly encourage you to check them out in person at one of the local authorized dealers.

Handling pretty much any iteration of the M240 and M10 series would help you determine if you hate the size of the M262, or may actually prefer the ISO dial of the M10.

Good luck.

 

[Richard G]

You’ve got your M9 still, good thinking, maybe. It’s obvious the next should be M10. I reckon keeping the M9 might be a bit like the situation with your old laptop, slow to start, battery life so short; or your most recent car you hung onto, with a dead battery in a week or two, and less used controls you can’t even quite remember how to operate. Enjoying your new camera, the M9 will seem to rapidly decline, its battery flat, the shutter sound even more rasping, the LCD once again so annoyingly useless for checking focus, and yet another battery charger going west. Why on earth did I not take the generous trade in offer? I’ll be doing the same I suspect. I won’t trade mine in. And it will soon be considered not good enough as a second camera, sitting there as a reminder of the miracle it once was. These musings are why I’m still using my M9. I still love it. The chrome has the subtle patina of my film Leicas. I don’t think of it as old or out of date. I am in the state of avoiding M9 retention remorse, basking in the warm glow of its opposite.

 

[boojum]

I have the M8.2, M9 and M240. They are all nice cameras and each has its strengths and weaknesses. The M240/M262 has color that I like. I found Kodachrome a bit bright. The M240/262 is more like Agfachrome. Good color, softer color. It has a tank of a battery, that's nice. It shoots good images with larger size and greater dynamic range. You can shoot mono and use built-in electronic filters, red, yellow, orange, etc. And you can use an add-on viewer to make it an SLR.

The downside is the Achilles heel of all Leicas: batteries. Be sure to get two. You can shoot all day on one but it is nice to have another just in case. And, oh yeah, it will shoot movies, too.

 

[PatrickT]

It looks like you’re in the Bay Area — I would highly encourage you to check them out in person at one of the local authorized dealers.

Handling pretty much any iteration of the M240 and M10 series would help you determine if you hate the size of the M262, or may actually prefer the ISO dial of the M10.

Good luck.

That's definitely in the plan! I don't think anywhere will likely have an M262, but perhaps an M240 and definitely an M10.

You’ve got your M9 still, good thinking, maybe. It’s obvious the next should be M10. I reckon keeping the M9 might be a bit like the situation with your old laptop, slow to start, battery life so short; or your most recent car you hung onto, with a dead battery in a week or two, and less used controls you can’t even quite remember how to operate. Enjoying your new camera, the M9 will seem to rapidly decline, its battery flat, the shutter sound even more rasping, the LCD once again so annoyingly useless for checking focus, and yet another battery charger going west. Why on earth did I not take the generous trade in offer? I’ll be doing the same I suspect. I won’t trade mine in. And it will soon be considered not good enough as a second camera, sitting there as a reminder of the miracle it once was. These musings are why I’m still using my M9. I still love it. The chrome has the subtle patina of my film Leicas. I don’t think of it as old or out of date. I am in the state of avoiding M9 retention remorse, basking in the warm glow of its opposite.

You know, one of the reasons I'm considering NOT doing this is because I know that buying another camera will make me use the M9 less, and I don't really want that to happen. Even with my niggles, whenever I download the images and look at them, I'm so happy I used the M9 to take those photos. So this might end up with me not buying another camera and instead being happy with my M9 for a while.

I have the M8.2, M9 and M240. They are all nie cameras and each has its strengths and weaknesses. The M240/M262 has color that I like. I found Kodachrome a bit bright. The M240/262 is more like Agfachrome. Good color, softer color. It has a tank of a battery, that's nice. It shoots good images with larger size and greater dynamic range. You can shoot mono and use built-in electronic filters, red, yellow, orange, etc. And you can use an add-on viewer to make it an SLR.

The downside is the Achilles heel of all Leicas: batteries. Be sure to get two. You can shoot all day on one but it is nice to have another just in case. And, oh yeah, it will shoot movies, too.

Good to know, thanks. I'm considering the M262, which is a somewhat stripped down M240 with no video, viewfinder, etc. and I like the idea of it being more simple. But I appreciate the comments on the color, as that is one of the reasons I'm hesitant to "replace" the M9.

 

[Godfrey]

I have an M9 that I love the output from, but am finding some of its limitations, dynamic range, shutter sound, and a few other things bothersome and limiting. Some of these are part of the charm of the camera (like the limited dynamic range and limited high ISO), which is why I want to keep it alongside anything else I get.

I am considering getting either an M262 or an M10 to compliment the M9 and am torn on which route to go.

Here is what I value:
* Simplicity
* Great out-of-camera color (with the M9 I usually just tweak the white balance in LR and off I go, which I like)
* A pure rangefinder experience

I like that the M262 is a very simple camera, with no live view, a simple top plate, and allegedly great M420-era color. I don't love how thick it is.

On the other hand, I like that the M10 is thinner, more modern, might last longer, and has live view for the few times I might need it. I don't love the ISO knob (I'd never use it).

I realize that the "rational" choice is the M10, but it feels like my head might want the M262. If I'm going to keep the M9, that could ultimately serve as my "simple" camera, and the M10 could be the one that's a bit more advanced with the conveniences when I need them.

I think my dream would be the M10-R in black paint, but I don't think I can afford that.

Any advice from those that have owned both the M262 and M10?

- I have had M9, M-P 240, M-D 262, and now M10 Monochrom and M10-R.
- I almost never look at JPEGs out of the camera. Since I'm using LR Classic, I capture RAW only and output JPEGs from there. Why bother with JPEGs when the same photo captured as a raw file nets many time more capability in fine editing control, and the defaults you set up in LR are applied automatically?

Be that as it may ...

- I was never particularly happy with the M9. It always felt sluggish to me when shooting. But it made fine photos. I traded it when Leica offered a 100% current value trade-in against the M-P typ 240 due to the sensor corrosion problem. Beyond that, I know others love the M9 JPEG color palette, but it never appealed to me at all. The raw files were fine.

- The M-P 240 was much more responsive and produced even better results. I bought the M-D 262 while I still had the M-P 240, looking for an even simpler, more traditional Leica shooting experience. The two cameras produced much the same output, very hard to tell apart, although I did have two different customized defaults for them to cover the small nuances of difference. The only negative thoughts I ever felt about these two bodies was that the M-P 240 felt a bit 'thick' ... the M-D 262 being without LCD screen, felt much slimmer where my hands go, even though the actual difference is only a millimeter or two.

Other things went on at that point, and both the digital Ms were sold. I used the SL 601 and then CL for some years, then sold the SL. I missed having the flexibility of the FF sensor, however, wanted the M's compactness too (it's only marginally larger than the CL digital) .... I went for a new M10 Monochrom just before the line sold out at my favorite dealer. (I think I got his last one ...)

- The M10 Monochrom is perhaps the finest day to day shooting camera I've ever owned. I liked it so much that I decided to acquire the M10-R a year later, so as to have the same camera with a color capable sensor.

- The M10-R is perhaps the second finest day to day shooting camera I've owned. It's not quite at the same extraordinary acutance and dynamic range as the M10 Monochrom, but it's very close.

The M10s are a little slimmer than the M-D 262 where my hands go and "just feel right". They last just as long on the battery in my use, and have a more nicely developed set of controls and menus. They've been so good that I hardly even looked at the M11 series until Leica announced the M11-D ... and all I've done there is look at it, not even considered buying it. Output from these M10 bodies is outstanding, responsiveness is excellent. I'm very glad I could afford them.

G

 

[PatrickT]

@Godfrey thanks for the reply. FWIW, I wasn't talking about JPEGs out of the camera, I was referencing the look of the files imported into Lightroom with default settings. I don't use JPEGs straight from the camera either on the M9.

While one of the cameras I'm considering is the M 262, I've been eyeing the M-D 262 as well, for an even more pure experience. Prices are too high for me though.

Did you consider an M10 or M10-P instead of the M10-R? Why did you go M10-R?

 

[Bill Blackwell]

I've owned both the M-P 240 and M10-P. The obvious thing both have in common is their 24 megapixel sensors, but the M10 has better dynamic range and a higher useable ISO. I never missed not having video in the M10-P (M240 video quality is good, but the sound is garbage - I rarely see anyone mention this, BTW). Otherwise, video aside (since we're talking about a 262), it's all about the user experience. I quickly got used to the thinner film M-camera-like M10 body compared to that of the M240. Both cameras were very reliable and I never worried about the quirks I've come to expect from my M11-P. The M240 battery will last longer if you avoid the video function, but I had two M10 batteries and for my shooting never needed more than one. To date, any time I've upgraded a digital M I never missed the prior model.

Having said all that, I believe you would be happy with either choice.

Not to answer for Godfrey, but the M10-R sensor matches the resolution of the M10-M (both are 40 megapixels).

 

[Coldkennels]

My two cents: I found myself in the same boat last year and ended up getting the base M240 over the two models you mentioned.

Why? Price. I got a sweet deal on an M240 and I didn't feel like I was going to notice enough of difference between that and the M10 to justify the extra £1k+.

As for the "benefits" of the M262, I don't use the live view on the M240 unless I'm tinkering with lenses, and I tried the video mode once and then promptly forgot it existed (the lack of high frame rate options makes it a bit useless in today's era; 1080p/60fps is pretty much the minimum for a lot of things now, and the M240 is capped at 1080/24, if I remember right). The only sign the video mode even exists is one small button on the top plate which is easily ignored.

So really the only "benefit" to the M262 is the easier access to the white balance (they repurposed the M240's live view button into a white balance one), and I wasn't about to pay extra for that!

Also, for what it's worth, the M240 price seems to be coming down a fair bit, at least here in the UK. Red Dot Cameras currently have a boxed M240 with case for just £2,000 - that's a lot of camera for the money.

 

[Godfrey]

@Godfrey thanks for the reply. FWIW, I wasn't talking about JPEGs out of the camera, I was referencing the look of the files imported into Lightroom with default settings. I don't use JPEGs straight from the camera either on the M9.

While one of the cameras I'm considering is the M 262, I've been eyeing the M-D 262 as well, for an even more pure experience. Prices are too high for me though.

Did you consider an M10 or M10-P instead of the M10-R? Why did you go M10-R?

Regards the look of the raw files in LR at "defaults": Well, that's up to you. You can use the Adobe defaults, or you can adjust and modify the rendering defaults to suit your desires best and set that to be your default. You can also generate a customized CCP (camera calibration profile) and have LR output precisely what pathological default you prefer. 😉 I haven't found myself motivated to do customized defaults with M10-M/-R DNGs, but I have done it with M9, M-D 262, and M-P 240 files ... and many other cameras as well.

The M-D 262 was a limited edition model (that I should not have sold...) so prices for it run a bit on the high side. The M10-M is what motivated me to want the M10 color body, and I wanted the same pixel resolution, so I only hunted up an M10-R. My dealer friend gave it to me at a very reasonable price.

I never used motion capture on any of my M cameras (or on my SL or CL, for that matter) so I actually had to look at the instruction manual to remind myself that the M10 series doesn't support it at all. 😉 Panasonic, Olympus, and Sony all do MUCH much better motion capture, so for that I use the Olympus E-M1 on the very very rare occasions when I am doing that kind of stuff. (The Olympus E-M1 also has the benefit of excellent in-body image stabilization which is almost essential for quality video capture without tripods, dollies, etc.) (... and, if I want BIG SENSOR DoF control with motion capture, I pull out the Hasselblad 907x/CFVII 50c for a giggle. )

G

PS ... A lot of folks don't seem to know about the ability to change LR's processing defaults. See
https://helpx.adobe.com/si/lightroom-classic/help/raw-defaults.html
for more information.