M3 + K64 Shooting Tips?

[dave lackey]

As soon as the weather cooperates, I will begin shooting for the Kodachrome Project. Daytime, Night, mixed light...

Anyone have any shooting tips for using the M3 with Kodachrome 64?

Thanks in advance,

 

[furcafe]

Nothing special or different about using the M3 w/Kodachrome (or any regular slide film). Just remember that the 1/1000th sec. setting on the M3, or any Leica M other than the M7 or M8, is likely to be about a 1/4th to a 1/3rd stop slow.

I'll leave it to more experienced Kodachrome shooters to weigh in on the characteristics of the film itself.

 

[photorat]

Recently bought a slab or K64 for my M2. Still looking for a viable colour option ahead of my trip to China in August and thought I'd take the plunge with Kodachrome. Haven't had any satisfying results from colour negative film yet. Have taken some (bracketed) test rolls and now waiting for the results. I guess exposure is the essential thing. I'm a bit concerned about the decreased latitude of slide film using a meterless camera. For a born zone system b/w shooter, it's all new to me, of course. I've been using my Sekonic Twinmate on reflective mode and bracketing off of that. I also took half a roll using incident readings. Time will tell which is best...

 

[KM-25]

Use yer meter!

Hand held meter set at 80, then be accurate in setting your aperture, don't get lazy and let it slip into the full or 1/2 stop click position if it's not supposed to be there....

If shooting in full sunlight, 1/250th at F/8 and a half is the norm, but as soon as it is side lit, open up a 1/4 to 1/3rd. Snow cover can add a 1/4 stop, lots of spill. Full sunlight in a otherwise dark forest will be a tad less than sunny F/16 due to the light being sucked out by dark surroundings.

Because of a weak cyan layer, Kodachrome often lacks pop on those milky clear winter days between 10AM and 2 PM. Before or after that, it comes to life as natural polarization has a greater effect.

In fact, today is one of those days...I am looking out the window and there is lots of sun, but the sky is milky, some high cirrus clouds, not a lot of color even to my eyes. Unless the subject screamed for me to shoot, I would be passing on shooting Kodachrome today..

Remember, everything in life is a reflector, even the clothes you choose to wear. The color tone of one building over another can have a great impact on what your final shot will look like. Often the best sunset photo is not the sunset it self, but what or who it is lighting up with the soft glow of a pink sky..

Go on Flicker and study some of the Kodachrome shots, namely the color content and exposures. You will quickly see where Kodachrome is shinning and where it is not. This pool is a good place:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/kodachrome/pool/

My stuff is a good place to see how I look for color and form in using the film and for the record, I rarely bracket anymore:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23585735@N06/sets/72157612226326832/

And:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23585735@N06/sets/72157613088832861/

Part of the reason I formed the project for others to shoot is because I find Kodachrome to be a great teacher of light and form. What you got is what you get, no going back into RAW and tweaking the color, tone or contrast.

Hope this helps,

Dan

 

[rovnguy]

Kodachrome is both wonderful film and can be very demanding of the user to pay close attention to exposure. In my experience, meter each shot, underexpose 1/2 stop for shadows, and try to use the sweet spot on your lens to the greatest degree possible. It certainly wouldn't hurt to practice before you go.

 

[Al Kaplan]

I prefer using incident for anything, but often adjust a bit in the direction of underexposure to keep from having burned out highlights when shooting 'chromes. When in doubt bracket and KEEP NOTES. Color neg can stand a lot of overexposure. 'Chromes can't! After you'e shot a few test rolls you should get the hang of it. You'll love the color, and it's nice to know that the color will still be there in fifty years (or more). The one thing that fades Kodachrome dyes is bright light. They don't hold up as well as Ektachrome to projection, but Ektachrome will fade and shift color just sitting in the dark.

 

[dave lackey]

Hand held meter set at 80, then be accurate in setting your aperture, don't get lazy and let it slip into the full or 1/2 stop click position if it's not supposed to be there....

If shooting in full sunlight, 1/250th at F/8 and a half is the nrom, but as soon as it is side lit, open up a 1/4 to 1/3rd. Snow cover can add a 1/4 stop, lots of spill. Full sunlight in a dark forest will be a tad less than sunny F/16 due to the light being sucked out...

Use yer meter!

Let me think this through...the M3 has click positions for the shutter speeds and click positions on the lens for aperture. No meter, just a handheld meter.

I can set the shutter speed at 1/250th, no problem. I then set the aperture a little past the F/8 mark on the lens?

 

[furcafe]

While you can do intermediate speeds on the M3 (except between 1/8th & 1/15th), they aren't as precise as your lens, even if it doesn't have intermediate 1/2 (modern Leica) or 1/3rd (Zeiss ZM) stops. So in Dan's full sunlight example, you could go w/either 1/250th & f/9.5 (which is 1/2-way between f/8 & f/11) or try to get 1/360th or 1/375th & f/8, but the intermediate speed would be more of a crapshoot w/the M3's shutter.

Also, you might want to keep in mind whether you will actually be projecting the slides or scanning them. In my experience (using Nikon Coolscan 5000 & Minolta Scan Multi Pro w/Vuescan software), scanners seem to have the ability to grab more detail from slightly overexposed slides than would be visible if they were projected or on a light table, but less ability to see into the shadows. Bottom line for me is that the old rule about slightly underexposing slides when in doubt doesn't necessarily apply; to the contrary, Kodachrome (like Velvia 50 in my experience) seems denser than regular slide films & "correct" exposure (or even slight overexposure) has often given me more pleasing results.

Let me think this through...the M3 has click positions for the shutter speeds and click positions on the lens for aperture. No meter, just a handheld meter.

I can set the shutter speed at 1/250th, no problem. I then set the aperture a little past the F/8 mark on the lens?

 

[photorat]

Seems slight underexposure (compared with reflective metered exposure value) is the key. Any experience using Kodachrome with a flash? I've taken a few close range (3 feet) portraits indoors with my Mecablitz at f/16. Curious to see the results. Not usually one to use a flash but at 64 ASA, it does offer more flexibility, especially indoors, and the Mecablitz is cool as I can mount it off camera and bounce it virtually anywhere. Might have to take a few steps back from the subject if overexposure is a risk.

(Sorry, Dave for hijacking your thread but it looks like we're after the same advice. As for your question re: f stops, most lenses come with half stops on the aperture ring, except my J-3 which is actually continuous (there are no clicks, just a smooth, gradual closing and opening). Halfway between f/8 and f/11 at 1/250 sec puts you on the sunny-16 rule with the film rated at 80 ASA. True sunny-16 (rated at 64) would mean f/8 at 1/250 sec - i.e. half an EV higher.)

EDIT: Just saw furcafe's last post. So ignore everything I've written. 🙂 I should stop trying to pre-empt the results of my film test. It would certainly be easier if I could just rate the film at 64, point my twinmate at the subject and be good to go.

 

[KM-25]

I disagree with the shoot to scan thing.

You are either shooting digital or you are shooting film. In the case of Kodachrome, I would *much* rather have to deal with a beautiful and moody colored Kodachrome in scanning than to have my great grandchildren hold up the slide to a light and see a washed out or flat Kodachrome that was shot for "Scanning" reasons. Also consider that Kodachrome's max saturation threshold is about a 1/3rd stop range, so if you are exposing for scanning, you are cheating your self out of one of the very reasons to shoot Kodachrome in the first place, the color. This is why when you look at the vast majority of Kodachrome on flicker, it is washed out and flat.

To combat this, I use a Nikon 9000ED with Silverfast Ai software and use the dynamic range scan settings and play with the exposure slider a lot. I sort my edit in stacks of three:

1. Very dark shadows, rich color.

2. Average shadows, still good color.

3. High key or accidental over exposure.

This way I get into a mode with each stack.

As far as flash goes, Kodachrome is great with it, but like the ambient exposure, less is more works best. I have an ever so slight warming gel on my SF-20 and never shoot the flash at zero compensation. It is always at least one stop under and if I am dragging the shutter at night, it is usually at -1 & 2/3rds or -2 stops under.

 

[RichardB]

I've been using Kodachrome since I was child in the 1950's, through college and then on to a stint for a newspaper and I still use K64 with Nikons and M7's.
There is nothing magical about exposure settings for K64 except knowing how to epose based on your meter or lack of meter and subject brigthness range. Not every picture can be photographed correctly if the brightness range xceeds the ability of the film.
In the final anlysis, if the picture is important, bracket your exposures depending on the importance. If very important, Bracket 1/2 stops for a range of +- 2 stops.
I wouldn't shoot at anything other than ASA 64 and I would be very accurate in my exposure which means either a good external handheld or a SLR with a good spot type meter system.
The lack of a TTL meter syetm is why i progressed from M3 to M6 to M7's. Good luck!
BTw electrnic flash works quite well with K64 as long as you don't exceed its ability to capture light and dark subjects together.-Dick

 

[furcafe]

I wasn't really suggesting that he shoot to scan, merely that shots you might throw away as overexposed when projected can actually contain enough information when scanned to be made into acceptable or even good digital files. As far as film v. digital, I don't think it's an either/or thing. Of course if you're shooting film, you're shooting film, & ideally that means exposing it as it was meant to be exposed for the intended final product, i.e., prints for negatives & slides for positives. I certainly won't argue w/you over the proper way to expose Kodachrome.

As a practical matter, though, if the film is never going to be projected or printed in significant quantity (and that's true of more film shooters than you might imagine), you are basically shooting film w/a digital final product (i.e., a super high-resolution digital photo of a film original), whether that be display on a monitor or a print, so I think it's important to take the peculiarities of scanning, & scanners, into consideration. It's just my experience, & while I'm by no means an expert I do shoot & scan a lot of film, that existing scanners have more of a problem dealing w/film density, & by that I mean the dark parts of slides & "bright" parts of negs, than projectors & enlargers do. Perhaps much of that can be mitigated w/different software settings or by combining different scans, HDR-style, but I think it's something that anyone shooting w/film that's going to be scanned should be aware of.

As far as most Kodachrome looking washed out on flickr, I think that has more to do w/people's (or their labs's) lack of scanning skills, etc., than any intentional shooting to scan.

Finally, I think a lot has to do w/the quality of the light, no surprise, & subject matter.

I disagree with the shoot to scan thing.

You are either shooting digital or you are shooting film. In the case of Kodachrome, I would *much* rather have to deal with a beautiful and moody colored Kodachrome in scanning than to have my great grandchildren hold up the slide to a light and see a washed out or flat Kodachrome that was shot for "Scanning" reasons. Also consider that Kodachrome's max saturation threshold is about a 1/3rd stop range, so if you are exposing for scanning, you are cheating your self out of one of the very reasons to shoot Kodachrome in the first place, the color. This is why when you look at the vast majority of Kodachrome on flicker, it is washed out and flat.

To combat this, I use a Nikon 9000ED with Silverfast Ai software and use the dynamic range scan settings and play with the exposure slider a lot. I sort my edit in stacks of three:

1. Very dark shadows, rich color.

2. Average shadows, still good color.

3. High key or accidental over exposure.

This way I get into a mode with each stack.

 

[varjag]

M3 specific tip: remember to set the film reminder dial to DIN 19 😉

 

[photorat]

My stuff is a good place to see how I look for color and form in using the film and for the record, I rarely bracket anymore:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23585735@N06/sets/72157612226326832/

And:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23585735@N06/sets/72157613088832861/

I like your sets a lot, Dan. Thanks for sharing. I particularly like some of the low light/long exposure shots. But I fear that's beyond the power of my Twinmate. It seems to be pretty useless in low light situations. How do you meter for those multi-second shots?

 

[KM-25]

As far as most Kodachrome looking washed out on flickr, I think that has more to do w/people's (or their labs's) lack of scanning skills, etc., than any intentional shooting to scan.

Finally, I think a lot has to do w/the quality of the light, no surprise, & subject matter.

When I re-read what I wrote, I too noticed how off the mark my statement was.

 

[KM-25]

I like your sets a lot, Dan. Thanks for sharing. I particularly like some of the low light/long exposure shots. But I fear that's beyond the power of my Twinmate. It seems to be pretty useless in low light situations. How do you meter for those multi-second shots?

Well, believe it or not, it is not that hard to get into a rhythm with lower light. It tends to all be around the same. If it is beyond your hand held meter, you can pretty much figure 1/8th to 1/2 of a second at 1.4 is going to register something in the average street scene. Most of the time, street scenes are EV 2-4. For truly low light, like moon light or even starlight, you simply bracket, starting at least 4-5 seconds at EV -1. 30-60 seconds at 1.4 in full moon light will generally get a nice result.

Kodachrome actually does really well with long exposures. And in time, you learn how to meter with your eye.

 

[maddoc]

A lot of very useful information in this thread ! I am one of these guys who produced a lot of washed-out Kodachrome shots only because of sloppy metering ... :bang:

 

[Al Kaplan]

I've been going through boxes and boxes of stuff I've accumulated over the years. I was just looking through a box of Kodachrome II slides processed at Kodak's Atlanta lab that were shot 20 March 1973 with a 65mm Elmar on my Visoflex II mounted on an M2. They look like they were shot yesterday. Now I just need to learn how to scan slides, and I finally just learned to scan prints!

 

[KM-25]

Now I just need to learn how to scan slides, and I finally just learned to scan prints!

1. Drum scanner, Howtek, Heidleberg:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Heidelberg-Chro...ryZ57058QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

2. Imacon Flextight, 646, 848, 949 or X5.

3. Nikon 9000ED with Silverfast Ai software.

I have the latter, it cost about $3,000 brand new all told with a glass holder, Ai software. Well, well worth it, I can scan any Kodachrome with ease.

 

[photorat]

Load the camera, put a lens on the front, shoot.

Are you sure the lens goes on the front? I could probably think of a better place to put it...