M3 single versus double stroke, objectively

[Pherdinand]

Hi
Sorry if most of you think it's obvious, but:
WHAT exactly is/are the differences between M3 SS and DS bodies?
I know..many "prefer" the older DS "feel" but :
first of all, is the double stroke meaning you have to ratchet the wind lever twice to cock and wind film, like e.g. on medium format RF's, or is it stg completely different?
and what else are advantages/disadvantages of a DS versus a SS in daily use?

thanks

 

[Roger Hicks]

Yes, you have to wind twice.

If you can stand it, they're very smooth.

If you can't (I can't) they're a waste of money.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[JRG]

Different strokes, I guess (pun sort of intended). I find that I generally wind the film with two strokes even on bodies like an M4 or M5. Partly habit from using my M3 DS, and partly because I just like to do it that way.

 

[noah b]

I started out with a double stroke and it was quite nice. Then I sold it and bought an M2 and SS is the only way to go.

 

[JayC]

Maybe you are unawares, but the length of the strokes on a ds are only half as long. They are very short strokes.

 

[Al Kaplan]

I'm one of those that makes a quick series of short strokes so either single or double is fine with me. It's easy to get a double stroke converted to single but not worth spending the money unless you're getting a full CLA anyway.

Supposedly the original reason for the double stroke was that it lessened the chance of static electricity building up on the pressure plate. Early M3 cameras had ceramic pressure plates for the same reason.

 

[ferider]

You can double stroke a single stroke camera, but not vice versa 🙂

 

[Pherdinand]

ok. thanks.
I must admit, i did sometimes forget the second stroke on my fuji gw690ii. Luckily there is an interlock so you can't push the sh release unless you did the second stroke.
Is there something like this on the DS M3 too?

Also, are there any other differences between the SS and DS version bodies?

 

[ferider]

The one thing I would like to have on my SS M3s are the Buddha ears. The newer Lugs are far from sturdy.

Roland.

 

[Tuolumne]

I have read that the reason for the early DS system was that Leica was afraid a single stroke would put too much tension on the film and damage it. When this was discovered to be a non-issue, later M3 models were developed with the SS system. So, the DS system is a kind of evolutionary dead-end. But the short DStrokes are very smooth. If you are used to a single stroke advance you will probably find a DS a pain.

/T

 

[dcsang]

The older M3 DS bodies have the "old" timings. (i.e. 1, 2, 5, 10, 25 versus 1, 2, 4, 8, 15, 30)

I really like the old DS bodies for that reason alone - you meter and you get 1/30 at f4 for example but on the DS you shoot at 1/25 thereby giving you just enough "extra" exposure 😀

Cheers
Dave

 

[BTMarcais]

Pherdinand-
You can't release the shutter until you've finished both strokes...if you look at the shutter curtains while advancing you'll see they only are 1/2 cocked after the first stroke.
There's a few differences between the SS and DS bodies, and some differences between the earlier DS models as well. Mine is a relatively early DS, with the second rangefinder assembly (there were 3 different ones for the M3 i think), the old buddha strap lugs, continental shutter speeds (1,2,5,10,25,50,100,250,500,1000) and no frame preview lever. according to the serial # it should also have a glass pressure plate, but it looks like that's been replaced.
The Head Bartender's site has some good info as usual...

 

[xayraa33]

I have two M3s one is a DS the other an SS.
my DS M3 is from 1957 and has the modern shutter speed progression of the 1/30, 1/60 etc.
I prefer the DS version as it nicer to advance the film and not move the camera much when it is held up to your eye.

 

[MikeL]

"Now everybody have you heard
If youre in the game, then the strokes the word
Don't take no rhythm, dont take no style
Got a thirst for killin', grab your vile.........

Better listen now (said) it ain't no joke
Let your conscience fail ya, just do the stroke
Dontcha take no chances keep your eye on top
Do your fancy dances you can't stop you just stroke me, stroke me."

-Billy Squier

 

[Mackinaw]

I have read that the reason for the early DS system was that Leica was afraid a single stroke would put too much tension on the film and damage it.

Another theory was that they used a double-stroke advance to minimize the chance of a static charge building up on the glass pressure plate.

I have a double-stroke M3 and a single stroke MP. After a few minutes of operation, I'm totally used to either camera.

Jim B.

 

[payasam]

I had an M3 DS and now have an M2. I find no difference between the two, perhaps because I often wind on as Al does.

 

[dreamsandart]

Some Leica Folks believe the double stroke M3 was the best Leica ever made. But any M3 is pretty good and you can always multi-stroke an M, so unless you happen to find that perfect M3 double I'd go with ease of use and get the newer single version.

 

[David Murphy]

The strokes are easy, smooth, and short. Cocking the shutter comes naturally. From the few I've had to handle, I've noticed the M3 DS to be an exceptionally nice camera mechanically, even by the high standards of early Leica M (I own and use an M2 these days - also nice, very practical, but a little different). My other favorite, somewhat beyond my budgetary abilities, is the early Wetzlar M4.

 

[maddoc]

I had a M3DS twice and both times didn't like the double stroke mechanism ... When you reach ~ frame 36 with a SS it is quite easy to "feel" the end of the film because it is usually only half a stroke you can advance. With a M3DS I once managed to rip the film out of the canister because the first stroke advanced exactly to the end of the film and my attempt to advance the second stroke sheared the tape from the film ...

From what I have heard M3DS are a little more fragile than M3SS and it is not possible to repair the M3DS (no spare parts ?), so the camera has to be converted to SS mechanism (expensive).

 

[bob338]

i started out with a DS M3 and it feels pretty natural to me. i now use an M7 that i single stroke without much thought. but i also use an M2 and an M6(with m2 style advance lever) and often find myself doing the old DS advance.
for what it's worth, i too think the DS M3 is probably the best camera leica ever made.

bob