M3 users - how do you work without TTL metering?

[briandaly]

How do you meter when your camera has no built-in meter?
Guess, use a clip-on meter, use a separate meter?
Does not having TTL metering affect your shooting style?
I'm talking about ambient metering (not flash).

 

[colyn]

I have a couple of hand held meters which I can use or I just go by sunny-16. Built-in meters aren't all they are cracked up to be..

 

[briandaly]

I have a couple of hand held meters which I can use or I just go by sunny-16. Built-in meters aren't all they are cracked up to be..

I suppose that using B/W film, with lots of latitude, guestimating using Sunny-16 is OK. How about shooting slide film? I would imagine more precise readings would be required.

 

[MartinP]

A separate incident/reflected meter, mostly on incident, to get a start point then compensate a bit until things look different enough to make another reading. For transparencies I'd hand-meter each change in light, TTL or not.

 

[rolleistef]

after a few rolls you just know how it works. First you use a handheld meter, then you just know that 16/film speed is for sunny weather, 11/60th for dull weather with a 400 iso, 4/50 for indoor with much light, 2/30 for indoor without much light etc.

 

[waileong]

Of course it affects shooting style. If you use a spot meter, you think very hard about what to meter and what zone you want to place that in. If using incident, you get into the same light as the subject. If using reflected meter, you learn to do compensation when the light is too bright (eg bright snow, backlit, etc).

Fortunately, unless the light changes rapidly, one reading is all it takes to shoot off a few frames, and when one sees the results on the light box, one immediately understands what one did right or wrong.

 

[former member]

I use a hand-held meter, like people did for decades.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Informed guess, or informed interpretation of some sort of meter (doesn't matter much which, so the Voigtländer shoe mount is good).

Cheers,

R.

 

[WoolenMammoth]

I grew up on rollei's without meters, but after owning an m3 for a few months I really began to desire a M6 simply for the convenience of the meter and once I got one immediately developed a love hate relationship with the camera. The meter is terrible and the accuracy of the frame lines really leaves a lot to be desired. I much prefer to use an incident meter instead of craning my head all around with an m6 trying to decipher what it is seeing and then adjusting. I thought it would be faster shooting people, but its just not, not for me at least, ymmv. And no, there is nothing wrong with my m6...

I think the bottom line is really learning about metering. Years ago I thought TTL was the greatest thing ever until I started working around people who use meters professionally and watching them work and learning alot about lighting. Now that my standards for myself and my photography are a little different, using TTL metering when shooting people is a total drag because most TTL meters have too wide of an angle to be particularly useful as a spot meter for me. Its much faster to use a hand incident or spot meter depending upon the content that you are trying to shoot.

All that said, the meter in my CL is amazing. I wish M5's werent so big, Id get one just for the meter.

Not having TTL metering doesnt effect my style. It allows me to meter, then worry about the style of the shot. Having a camera stuck to my face while making lighting decisions is a total drag with the fiddly m6 meter, that sentiment times a million in a backlight situation. Most of my comments are geared towards shooting people in a documentary context where I want to have as little time as possible between putting the camera to my face and releasing the shutter for the first time. People not used to being photographed for a living tend to get antsy while they are looking at you not taking a picture of them because you are having a personal war with a 30 degree (or whatever it is) spot meter in an M6. So if anything, the m6 meter completely negatively imapcts my style and I get much different results with that camera than with a meterless camera. Sometimes its convenient without question, which is why I keep the camera, but for any serious portrait work I find myself MUCH better off with an M3 or an M4. Personal preference for sure, but there you go.

 

[thomasw_]

For tricky light, the Gossen Digisix is my helper.

 

[colyn]

I suppose that using B/W film, with lots of latitude, guestimating using Sunny-16 is OK. How about shooting slide film? I would imagine more precise readings would be required.

I still use a hand held meter when shooting slide film. These meters can be as accurate or more so than built-in meters.

 

[SolaresLarrave]

I use a Leica MR meter, or a Sekonic L-208... Usually, since both have the same metering angle, it's relatively easy. For brightness, I meter a spot, like the sidewalk, and go from there opening or closing the lens (or switching shutterspeeds) as light changes. I've even used slide film that way, and I may wreck something like one slide per roll only.

Now, I really like the meter on my M6TTLs. And I use them a lot... but ocassionally, I enjoy using my M3 and figuring out the exposure on my own.

 

[furcafe]

Same here.

For tricky light, the Gossen Digisix is my helper.

 

[TheHub]

I use this: http://www.cameraquest.com/voivcmet2.htm

 

[briandaly]

Thanks everyone for the replies.
Makes me feel confident bidding on an M2/3/4 (at least af far as metering options are concerned).

 

[luketrash]

I got my Hasselblad 500 equipment about a year ago. I bought a Gossen Digisix in order to meter when using it. That meter is very simple to both use and carry on your person. I just use it in incident mode and it's very good that way.

Most people that eyeball exposure are relying on their film's wide latitude and are happy with a certain amount of over/underexposure. I'm that way when shooting with my 35mm cameras. I aspire to get a bit closer if I can when using medium format. Most of your street photographers with old Leicas don't really give a crap about the Zone System I'm guessing.

I've shot slide film in a 6x9 Ansco box camera before, that had one aperture and shutter speed. All 8 shots turned out. Blown highlights or shadows, but all frames 'turned out'.. At that point I realized that people who pick nits about metering methods are a bit off of their rockers.

The more film you shoot, the more of a hunch you get for your exposures anyway. A lot of times if I get an incident reading that I'm not in agreement with, I'll adjust my shots. ie: if I know I'm shooting something that lies to the meter like a lot of white, or there are shadows I want to pull out.

I say keep bidding on the old M cameras if that's what you want.

However, I'm loving my Bessa R2A I bought last week, which requires almost no thinking ;-)

I'll probably still own an M2 or M4 at some point as my first Leica.

 

[splitimageview]

I too use a digisix. Using an incident meter is freedom...I had an M6, and had a love/hate relationship with the diodes. Even a tiny change in reflected light or the point of view of the camera (i.e., inconsequential to the exposure, but enough to turn a diode on or off) would result in a change in the diodes, and it resulted in me being overly concerned with adjustments. A diode is either on or off; an analog meter like the M5 or CL is much better.

With incident, take a reading, and shoot away...take another reading when the light changes. I only wish I had discovered this years ago!

If I had an M6, I'd take the battery out and use the digisix.

 

[Mackinaw]

How do you meter when your camera has no built-in meter?

I use a Gossen Luna-Pro F light meter, usually in incident mode.

Jim B.

 

[shimo-kitasnap]

If you're just walking around during the day, using 400 ISO film, just set your aperture to f8 and your shutter speed to 1/250th. Adjust the shutter speed as needed if you encounter slight changes in light.

I usually go to 1/125th if I'm in the shade and 1/500th If it's around noon time.

Going indoors, open aperture up all the way, (f2 for summicrons) and shoot at 1/60th. If you have a faster lens like f1.4, then shoot at 1/125th. I've gotten pretty flawless results this way.

If I'm doing availible dark I'll use the clip on VC meter II or my M6. Just makes life a little easier. Although I've found if you are shooting on a city street at night, 1/15th-1/30th usually suffices if using an f1.4 lens at full aperture.

 

[larmarv916]

For starters...you could just read anyone of a number of books for Leica printed before TTL metering existed. these are cheap and as good and accurate as the day the were printed. Second now days there are all kinds of fancy digital flash meters. Third...why unless your under desprate circurmstances...would you want to use flash anyway???

Also if you take a general readying standing inside a "shadow" you will get a very accutate "open shade" meter value. Take a readying standing in the "sunlite" area and now you have a spread. Between highlight and shadow. 3 stops is average on a really bright day.

Remember the all those worthless words printed on the inside of the film Box.
Those crazy illustrations showing exposures for cloudy, brite and so on. Those work very well.

Also if you shoot a slow ASA slide film you can always derate the ASA and once again think about what you want to see. Most slide film comes out underexposed. So with Fuji Velvia 50 or Kodak ASA 100 slide films anthing over 3 stops is going to require a stobe fill but derate the strobe to 1/2 power. but outdoors in open sky an daylight... there is little chance of getting a bad image. If you just stick to exposure info on the inside of the Box.

It's only basic math. Good Luck........Laurance