M3 vs M6 TTL 0.85

[dfoo]

Any thoughts between these two cameras? I want this camera primarily for 50mm, so the increase magnification of the M3 is good. I think I'd find the reversed shutter speed dial of the M6 TTL irritating. The TTL to me is unimportant. I'm not sure if I'd find the meter annoying or not. I use an external meter for my M4-p (or sunny 16). Obviously the M6 would be a newer camera, so perhaps less problems?

Any more thoughts?

 

[maddoc]

Last year I switched from a M3 to an M6TTL 0.85x for two reasons, wearing glasses the 50mm frame lines are a little bit easier to see and I wanted one metered body (my second camera is the M4-P).

The M3 has definitively the better VF with higher contrast and being free from flare.

 

[notturtle]

if you have a M4-P it is a no brainer - go for one where the shutter speed dial rotates the same way - whatever the model. Bear in mind, if you are prepared to be patient, there are M6 classics with 0.85 finders about. ignore the ridiculous prices charged by the unscrupulous adds all over ebay with inflated prices for 0.85 classics. Sure there were only 500 or so made, but its still a regular M6 and the 0.85 s not rare on other bodies. some online dealers try to charge almost 0.85 MP prices - what a joke!

If you can afford it, a silver 0.85 MP wont be hard to come by. However, if you dont want to bother with a meter, a M3 makes an awful lot of sense.

 

[maddoc]

What's the deal about the direction of the shutter speed dial ? 😕

 

[LChanyungco]

i use an M3 and an M6TTL LHSA and even though the dials rotate in opposite directions i never notice during use. i think its because when using the M3 i look at the dial to make sure ive got the right speed set and with the M6 i just turn it till the meter says stop. this directional difference shouldn't sway you... but the M3's .92 should.

 

[NathanJD]

What's the deal about the direction of the shutter speed dial ? 😕

Someone correct me if i'm wrong but from reading a few things on the web i believe it's to make the speed dial move in the same direction as the meter and therefore make it more intuitive. also it allows you to do so happily without taking your eye up from the viewfinder. I think these are ideas that were brought across from the M5 that had a needle meter readout. the speed dial is also bigger and closer to the front edge of the camera so that you can turn it with your middle finger while you're framing again so that you don't have to take your eye from the camera.

Before the swathe of 'i can change the speed of my m1/2/3/4/6 classic without taking it from my eye' responses may i say - me too and it was Leica's design concept and not mine so don't shoot the messenger lol

 

[thomasw_]

M3 for sure.

 

[raid]

What a coincidence; my two Leica M cameras are one M3 and one M6 (0.85) non-TTL. Both are great cameras. The M3 has a more sold feel and the M6 is more useful.

 

[F456]

Sifting conflicting advice

Sifting conflicting advice

M3 or M6 0.85x... ...

I think this is going to be a choice where you can read posts but in the event must only follow your own instinct. Some find the opposite dials confusing; others prefer the largest viewfinder despite the lack of metering. No-one is objectively more right than you are in your own decision.

Don't be swayed by my own findings that follow, but I give them for information at least: I have had an M3, a traditional M6 0.72 and an M6 0.85. Now I have an M7 and an M6TTL.

Both my current film M cameras have the new style shutter speed direction, but though they are consistent with each other and with the M8, I find them both wrong as I got so used to the traditional direction - and also my Nikons go in the traditional direction (except for the aperture ring... ...). If you always look as you adjust, this is not a problem, as you say.

My most reliable camera was the M3, serviced by Leica after thirty years and then used by me for about 5, till like a fool I sold it. Somehow the mechanics felt smoother than with the M6s of any kind, and I thought the viewfinder was perfect because you really can shoot an M3 with both eyes open. It's a 50mm v/f not a 35mm - so your lens choices will probably affect your decision too. Again, don't take much notice of the 'smoother mechanics' part of this paragraph either, because it probably should be that the modern cameras with their computer-controlled milling and manufacturing technology are better fitted together.

Use of a meter may vary in importance depending on the type of photography you do. I've found the M-series meters to be very dependable and quite intuitive to use in most types of lighting. They don't suffer the mysterious amounts of outer field effect that traditional centre-weighted systems suffer from.

Hope this helps a bit. These are not the findings of an expert; please discard any or all of this at will!

Tom

 

[Al Kaplan]

In poor light, when you're in a rush, when your reading glasses are on the car seat two blocks away, when you're switching back and forth between two or more bodies on a shoot, shutter dial direction become important. Like that old acronym "KISS" for "Keep It Simple, Stupid!"

Moving a dial by feel (many of us do, habit from "The Old Days") just ONE click in the wrong direction changes your exposure by TWO stops (!) and may take a barely hand holdable situation into Shake City.

I also miss the accessory meter coupling notch in the speed dial. Don't ask me where it is. I honestly couldn't tell you. The index fingernail of my right hand is cross-coupled with some part of my brain though, and I'll know what shutter speed is set by where that notch is.

 

[notturtle]

In poor light, when you're in a rush, when your reading glasses are on the car seat two blocks away, when you're switching back and forth between two or more bodies on a shoot, shutter dial direction become important. Like that old acronym "KISS" for "Keep It Simple, Stupid!"

Moving a dial by feel (many of us do, habit from "The Old Days") just ONE click in the wrong direction changes your exposure by TWO stops (!) and may take a barely hand holdable situation into Shake City.

I also miss the accessory meter coupling notch in the speed dial. Don't ask me where it is. I honestly couldn't tell you. The index fingernail of my right hand is cross-coupled with some part of my brain though, and I'll know what shutter speed is set by where that notch is.

Absolutely!

If you don't work quickly or switching bodies to and fro then it wont matter, but if you do then it makes the world of difference. As to the shutter speed going against the dial on the older bodies, I do agree that the new system makes more sense, but with practice turning the dial against the arrows becomes intuitive and to use a body with the opposite principle - well that is a problem (even if alone it makes more sense).

Even if a body is not metered you may still alter the speed by a stop to deliver a different exposure. With my bodies I can do this with the camera to the eye. If the two bodies moved in opposite directions I would be in trouble.

KISS - I agree 100%. A lot of my work is under time pressure (snap shooting) and most of what I work on is increasing my efficiency, patter, body language, kit carriage, organisation etc so I dont need to think about these things.

 

[Livesteamer]

I have an M6 .85 non ttl and two M3's. The M6 .85 non ttl is not rare as about 3,000 were made. I did not like it's finder until I had Sherry Krauter upgrade it to MP standards, about $300. It used to flare a lot. Now it's an excellent finder and I use it more as the meter is handy but I think I like my old M3 just a little better. Joe

 

[joebt]

I have a 53 year old M3 DS and 2 M6 TTLs (0.72 & 0.85). I never had a problem with the directions the dials turn in useage. In fact I've been shooting with one of each for several years and i never think about the dials going in difffernt directions until I hear about or read about it, but it has been a non issue for me.

The 0.85 finder is good, but mine still flares. Not as bad as the 0.72 but the M3 never flares--ever!

 

[johannielscom]

Both my M3 and M5 rotate the same way. The M5 ofcourse provides readout in the finder, as does my M8, which rotates the other way.

All in all, I'm getting by without even noticing, I'm not irritated by the fact I sometimes turn the wrong way before getting it right. I have actually inspected my M's before writing this since it's such a non-issue with me. YMMV, though.

 

[RichardB]

I started with a SS M3, beautiful finder and all around camera, the external MR meter is the pits and I used a Nikon SLR for metering. I initially purchased a 0.85 M6 (not that hard to find) because of the dial rotation arguement and finder close to M3. As it turns out I purchased two M7's for AUTO shutter and find in manual, no problems but I rarely use manual as the shutter lock feature works so well. Frankly I would purchase either the M6 or M6TTL 0.85 depending on which has the better deal and condition. Even better is an 0.85 M7!-Dick

 

[TJV]

Such a nerd thing to say but my heart will always be with my old, beat up and now passed away M3 and matched collapsable Summicron. I went through some tough times with that camera and shot thousands of rolls over a four year period with it and it became a real part of my family. (I cringe when I write things like that about mere tools!) When the M8 was announced I sold it to help partially fund the move to digital. The M8 lasted about six months before I gave up on it and moved back to film - M7 and M4-P. The other day I picked up an M3 in a shop and it just felt right. I think the best part of it is the high mag viewfinder and the fact that the frame lines are thick and go all the way around (almost.). I knew exactly what I was going to see between the lines before I raised it to my eyes. For some reason I can't do that with my "new" M cameras, both with 0.72 finders. I hate the 50mm frame lines in my M7 because the bottom line is missing and just has two little notches in the corners, unlike the M4-P which has for solid lines. The M7's lines make me hesitate some times, especially when shooting against bright light when the lines fade out anyway.

As an aside, I emailed Leica to see how much it would cost to change my M7's finder to a 0.85 and they said 1200 Euro. Not cheap, but I suspect others would do it for cheaper.

If I were you, I'd find a well priced M3 and send it to DAG for a total overhaul (including shutter curtain replacement, just to be safe. They seem to have warped in most I've seen.)

 

[JNewell]

What a coincidence; my two Leica M cameras are one M3 and one M6 (0.85) non-TTL. Both are great cameras. The M3 has a more sold feel and the M6 is more useful.

Spot on. I have an M3 and an M6 non-TTL .85x and it is very much like an M3 with a meter (40 years on). I also have a .72x M6, but much prefer the .85x.

 

[Rob-F]

To focus a 50mm lens well does not require an M3 or M6 .85. That's true even for an f/1.4 lens. The additional magnification, however, can make it easier or perhaps faster to work with. And I only really feel I'm getting the most out of a 50mm lens when I shoot one on my M3.I'm going to suggest an M3 for your needs. First of all there is the dial rotation, as already discussed. Second, compared to the M6 (any M6, whether 0.85 or otherwise), the 50mm frameline will be a more accurate representation of the 50mm field coverage. Used at medium to long distances (say, 5 feet or more) the M6 (and M7 and MP) 50mm frame actually shows the same field area as my 60mm Macro-Elmar on my R6. So when composing, you only see 80% of the height of the final picture; and only 80% of the width. And since area is height times width, you only see .8 time .8, or .64 (64%) of the actual area.Finally, you don't seem to mind not having a meter on-board the camera. So if you want another Leica, it sounds like there could be an M3 out there with your name on it.BTW, late model M4-Ps also have the downsized framelines. Early ones have the original, larger frames.

 

[Rob-F]

How come my paragraph separations are not being accepted the last two days? I put in my usual spaces, and it comes out all run together.