m4-2 and the dreaded early serial cameras

[gavinlg]

I've been told a few times and also read often that the early m4-2s with the serial numbers starting with 14, especially the first ones in the batch should be avoided at all costs due to quality control niggles with canadian leica working out the production process. My question is: Is this very common on ALL of these cameras, or was it just a few that had problems?

I have a chance to buy one in very used condition for a decent price, seems to be working fine. Does anyone have any experience with these early models and their problems?

Thanks,
Gavin

 

[payasam]

If it's well used, Gavin, it must be good enough to use.

 

[ferider]

Like he said. If you have a chance to play with it before you buy
it, do so. If it feels OK it very likely is, and if there is something
wrong with it, it's probably fixable.

Roland.

 

[Ben Z]

Early M4-2's were made in '76-'77. Seriously, what are the chances that if it's been in use for 30 years that it suffers from teething troubles that haven't been fixed along the way? I might be more concerned about one that's still mint in the original box. Then again any Leica that hasn't been used since 1977 will need an overhaul anyway, if for no other reason than the slow speeds won't work.

 

[JNewell]

The challenge, I guess, at least in academic terms, is to see if you can find one that's early enough to have the original RF optics ("flare free") but late enough to avoid the "dreaded" (according to web lore) early batches. Bon chance!!!

Of course, as Ben Z suggests, you could just buy it and use it to take photos, rather than looking for an M4-2 to use for taking pictures... 😉

If you don't need 28mm or 75mm framelines and are happy with an external meter, the reputation of the M4-2 makes it often the best user choice, from a bang:buck perspective.

 

[Xmas]

It is the plain jane...

If it has worn finish, a clear finder, a counter that works, a 1/15 that goes clickclackziiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnng, then you need to bulk load film. If the rfdr is out all you need is jewelers screw drivers.

Noel

 

[BillBingham2]

Gavin,

One way to look at it, would it be a good deal if you had to send it to Sherry or another expert and spend about $250 getting it fixed and CLAed?

Did you look at the Camera Quest site for the info?

Good luck and let us know you make out.

B2 (;->

 

[xayraa33]

too much is made of the early M4-2s.
I have one, it has been a fine camera since 1978, when I bought it brand new.
the rf does not flare out like the later M4-2s and later M cameras to the M6, because it still has the M4 rf configuration with a condenser.
if it is priced right and working well, grab it.

 

[Ronald M]

They are mostly all fixed by now. Mine is fine, just ruff like all with steel gears except the latest ones.

 

[Tom A]

It all depends how early you M4-2 is. If it is in the first 100 of M4-2's (red dot on the front and a single cut out on the drive in the bottom, it is worth buying and then re selling as it is a prime collectible (and most collectors would never put a roll through the camera). If is a later version than that, 148xx xxx, they had problems with shutter bounce when they first came out. If you have chance to run a quick roll through it and have it printed at a 1 hour lab it can be worth it. On the other hand, if it has been used for the last 30 years, it is most likely fine. As always when you buy a 30+ year old camera, adjust the price to include a CLA. Even if there is nothing wrong, it is comforting to know that the speeds are OK and that it is smooth.
On my early M4-2's the shutter bounce happened at 1/125 and 1/250 (of course - I was shooting mainly Tri X and those speeds were the main ones used). It will show up as 1/2 moon shaped uneven density across the negative. It is not a big deal to fix and the M4-2 is a good camera. The good news is that people are staying away from them because they are worried about these things, which means that they are cheap. Once adjusted and CLA'd, it is as good as any M4P and subsequent cameras.
Old M's are good for one thing and one thing only - taking pictures! Put a lens on it, load it and shoot. If it needs service, so be it. If you bought a 30 year old car, you would expect to put some TLC into it before blasting down the highway, wouldn't you?

 

[gavinlg]

Cheers to all, Very very good information. I know - I love the user cameras, especially the leica Ms... It really is pretty rough looking but reported to work excellent.
I had an ultron 28 on my old m6ti and didn't really like it a whole lot to be honest - I think I'm more of a 35/50 guy and that combo does almost everything I need.

I'll have a closer look at this m4-2 and make a decision.