M4-2 misconceptions

[CameraQuest]

The operative word in the above statement Erik is 'could'. The fact is it wasn't. Same story with the SL and SL2, too expensive and too complex to fix and therefore not adopted by the majority of pro users.

hmm I don't think so for the M5.

M5's WERE very used by pros who much appreciated the new features compared to the M4 (TTL, shutter speeds in finder, faster film rewind, faster changing of shutter speeds etc). That is why you will find so many worn M5's in the used marketplace. In my experience I've seen a higher percentage of worn M5 cameras than worn M3, M2, or M4.

The problem with M5 sales is that the huge doctor/dentist Leica fan boy crowd was buying the less expensive CL while at the same time complaining about the size of the M5.

Stephen

 

[Harry Lime]

I have heard it reported that renowned repair person Sherri Krauter has a low opinion on M4-2's based on her experiences with repairing the various Leica M models. That opinion carries some weight for me.

Same here. I bought an M4-2 very cheaply and sent it to Sherry for a full overhaul, including shutter blind replacement and she swapped out the plastic frame counter for a metal one.

Sherry spent a lot of time trying to dial it and little good to say about the M4-2 in general. She was not alone in this opinion. I asked two other well known repair technicians and they were of the same opinion.

It broke down on me twice within a few months. The second time it was a full shutter failure and it simply was not economically viable to keep pouring money into a model that quite obviously is a lemon.

In the end I used it as a donor body to get one of my M4 bodies repaired after it was damaged in a fall.

Personally I don't think the M4-2 is worth the risk. Some may work, but by all accounts a lot of them are problematic. Prices on M bodies have come down considerably as film use has waned and it just makes sense to stretch a little further and get a different model.

 

[jaapv]

The operative word in the above statement Erik is 'could'. The fact is it wasn't. Same story with the SL and SL2, too expensive and too complex to fix and therefore not adopted by the majority of pro users.

But selling about 200% over their sales target...🙄

 

[micromoogman]

Same here. I bought an M4-2 very cheaply and sent it to Sherry for a full overhaul, including shutter blind replacement and she swapped out the plastic frame counter for a metal one.

Sherry spent a lot of time trying to dial it and little good to say about the M4-2 in general. She was not alone in this opinion. I asked two other well known repair technicians and they were of the same opinion.

It broke down on me twice within a few months. The second time it was a full shutter failure and it simply was not economically viable to keep pouring money into a model that quite obviously is a lemon.

In the end I used it as a donor body to get one of my M4 bodies repaired after it was damaged in a fall.

Personally I don't think the M4-2 is worth the risk. Some may work, but by all accounts a lot of them are problematic. Prices on M bodies have come down considerably as film use has waned and it just makes sense to stretch a little further and get a different model.

YOU might had lemon

 

[splitimageview]

Indeed. Much more likely that M4-2 had been abused or a long-life or was simply a lemon. One single serial number does not a reputation make.

There is no doubt there are single copies of every model M that could be described in exactly the same manner.

 

[jim0266]

Amazingly, I still had a photo copy of Popular Photography's Lab report on the M4-2, with a field report by Bill Pierce and a teardown by Norman Goldberg.

Download the 1980 M4-2 Popular Photography Lab Report via my web site.

 

[Huss]

I think of an M5 as being of the same build quality and feel to an SL or SL2 which are to me 2 of the best quality cameras ever put together so I'm sure it's a fine camera but what does it actually have apart from an ageing cds needle meter over and above what any other M has?

Disclaimer - I use a bunch of other Ms (3, Mda, 7, 240)

Here's what the M5 has that they do not:

1/Spot meter.
2/Large shutter speed dial that overhangs the front of the camera so u can change shutter speeds with one finger while the camera is at ur eye.
3/The most comprehensive exposure information in the VF. Not even my digital M240 comes close. It is the only M ever made that shows the shutter speed in conjuction with a match needle exposure readout.
4/ The strongest and quickest film rewind mechanism. It is a straight linkage with crank, unlike angled linkages on M4s, M6s, M7s, or straight linkages w/ no crank like M3s, MAs etc
5/ A physical size that works great with regular lenses, but also is great with large ultra speed lenses as the body is really well balanced.

Not directed at u per se, but what I have noticed is that those who criticize the camera only do so from an aesthetic POV. When it comes to actual usage, it is the superior film M.

 

[xayraa33]

Although I am not a professional photographer.

I do own and use two M3s several M2s and an M4, and an M4P and two M4-2s. I have used the two M4-2 more than the rest of my Leica M models and other than the two teething problems that were fixed under warranty by Leitz, that I mentioned in my 2011 post, the M4-2s have never let me down after the warranty work decades ago and they remain my go to M Leicas.

 

[Erik van Straten]

What is your source on the loss ?

Stephen

The Dutch "Camera Magazine", a two-month periodical, 1998, issue 6, november/december, page 55.

Erik.

 

[Erik van Straten]

The problem with M5 sales is that the huge doctor/dentist Leica fan boy crowd was buying the less expensive CL while at the same time complaining about the size of the M5.

That is exactly what I wanted to say.

Erik.

 

[Erik van Straten]

The early M4-2 production was problematic because the machines in Canada were not correctly adjusted. (This information I've got from an empoyee of ODIN, the Dutch Leica importers, the well known Leica repairman Scherpenborg).

Erik.

 

[oltimer]

Disclaimer - I use a bunch of other Ms (3, Mda, 7, 240)

Here's what the M5 has that they do not:

1/Spot meter.
2/Large shutter speed dial that overhangs the front of the camera so u can change shutter speeds with one finger while the camera is at ur eye.
3/The most comprehensive exposure information in the VF. Not even my digital M240 comes close. It is the only M ever made that shows the shutter speed in conjuction with a match needle exposure readout.
4/ The strongest and quickest film rewind mechanism. It is a straight linkage with crank, unlike angled linkages on M4s, M6s, M7s, or straight linkages w/ no crank like M3s, MAs etc
5/ A physical size that works great with regular lenses, but also is great with large ultra speed lenses as the body is really well balanced.

Not directed at u per se, but what I have noticed is that those who criticize the camera only do so from an aesthetic POV. When it comes to actual usage, it is the superior film M.

Huss; I know you own the M7. Is it a much better camera all around over the M5 you used?

 

[Ko.Fe.]

...M4-2 in general... a model that quite obviously is a lemon.

I need similar story about M4-P! I'm going to buy one. Need prices to go down.

 

[Huss]

Huss; I know you own the M7. Is it a much better camera all around over the M5 you used?

Simple, and honest answer, the M7 is much much better if you want to shoot in AUTO mode.
If you want to shoot in manual and/or use large lenses (CV 35 1.2, Nokton 50 1.1, Noctilux etc), the M5 is better. Also, the M5 only needs batteries for the meter, not the shutter like the M7.

Using the M7 in AUTO definitely is quicker than using the M5. I enjoy using both, but if you are shooting in manual mode (like with any M camera apart from the M7) the M5 is The Boss.

 

[Richard G]

The problem with M5 sales is that the huge doctor/dentist Leica fan boy crowd was buying the less expensive CL while at the same time complaining about the size of the M5.

Stephen

The M5 was the first Leica I held. It belonged to my science teacher. I thought it was great. The 50 and 35 Summicrons were tiny compared to the Canon F1 my Dad's friend next door had. When I was 16 or 17 my father bought me a camera. He arranged with the store for me to look at two models: a Leica M2 with 50 Summilux, filter, hood, case and original box, or a Leica CL with a 40 and a 90. A metered, more modern camera and two lenses, versus an older meterless camera with one heavy very fast lens: I took the M2 and 50 in a heartbeat. Ahead of my time? Maybe.

 

[Robert Lai]

Richard G - you definitely made the right choice! I wish I had a dad like yours.

Jim 0266 - thanks for the Pop Photo review. July 1980 issue, for those who are interested.

 

[David Hughes]

Fascinating, the number of people who complain about cameras that they have neither used nor owned (or vice versa) seems to be growing.

Regards, David

PS I bought my CL as a travel camera and because I would not be bothered about (nor tempted by) other lenses. Also I found a very newish second-hand one. There were still new ones in the shops and it meant I could get the 90mm cheaply too. The hardest part was getting the fitted case but I managed it.

 

[Daryl J.]

Of my 4 Leicas, the M4-2 is my go-to shooter.

The previous owner(s) didn't treat it very well and it need repairs. But it's still the one I grab and go shoot with. The mint M4 and M4-P stay home. The M3 goes out if I'm in the mood to use the 35mm F3 ,5 Summaron. Salt spray. Icey rain. Pocket life. Dust. That's where my 4-2 works. I just love it.

Regards,
Daryl J.

 

[maddoc]

Of my 4 Leicas, the M4-2 is my go-to shooter.

The previous owner(s) didn't treat it very well and it need repairs. But it's still the one I grab and go shoot with. The mint M4 and M4-P stay home. The M3 goes out if I'm in the mood to use the 35mm F3 ,5 Summaron. Salt spray. Icey rain. Pocket life. Dust. That's where my 4-2 works. I just love it.

Regards,
Daryl J.

Same experience here. My most used M next to M7 and both cameras just work fine.

 

[Daryl J.]

If one were to ask why I prefer the M4-2, I could really offer little more than a shrug of the shoulders. Because of it's previous misuse, I'm comforable toting it about in my jacket pocket with the lens collapsed in. If it gets a scuff....no worries.

But it's been sent off to YYe to repair the shutter and hot shoe.

I can hardly wait to get it back.

Regards,
Daryl J.