M4 body and modern Voigtlander lenses

T

The Expanding Man

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Hello all, first post :)

I have taken the leap into getting myself a decent film RF set up.

I purchased an M4 body from a reputable shop over the internet who claims that it has been recently serviced and he offers a money back guarantee.

The body arrived, and it won't lock in any voigtlander lenses. I tried 2 50mm f1.1 and a voigtlander screw mount to m mount adapter, and none of them locked in.

I have contacted the vendor and he replied that because the M4 body has an old bayonet wth the round button, only very accurate bayonettes will fit. He asked if I had tried a genuine Leica lens. I had managed to do this at my local camera store, and the lecia lense did lock into place, whereas non of the voigtlander lenses did.

The vendor claims that only later models like the M6 don't have this problem with cheaper non-leica lenses.

My local camera shop are prepared to try and fix the problem, and the vendor has offered me either a partial refund, or a full refund if I return the body.

I'm not quite psychologically ready to invest in a full set of genuine leica glass, but quite ready to buy a few voigtlander lenses.

Can anybody help guide me through making the best decision? Is the vendor right about older M bodies not fitting non-leica lenses? If so, does my local camera repairer really have any possibility of repairing this fault on my M4 body?

Much obliged for any help from anybody with some knowledge about this.
 
hi, not sure if this is the problem but if your CV lens are screw mount, you may want to try the different 50mm Voigtlander LTM to M adapter. I know that the 50mm has 2 types.

raytoei
 
Never had an issue using Voigtlander lenses on my M4. I have a Voigtlander 35 1.4 on there now.
In fact I've never heard of that issue.
 
It is strange indeed... if there were general, frequent problems of this kind (CV lenses not locking on older Leicas) , we would have heard about it by now. But you say Leica lenses DID lock in your case. Hm.

All the best,
Ljós
 
Shouldn't be the case. I've a M2 and M3, both of which are older than the M4, and they mount the Voightlander lenses easily.
 
I've used Voigtländer and Zeiss lenses on M2 (2 copies) without difficulties. The vendor's assertion does not sound easily defensible to me.

Cheers,

R.
 
I have one Voigtländer and three Zeiss lenses as well as Leitz/Leica. They all go on my M2, M5 and M6. There have been threads about this sort of thing on photo.net a couple of years ago: it could be that the spring loaded bayonet catch is sitting out from the lens flange more than it should, or doesn't depress flush with the lens flange in the way that it should. See if you can inspect another M body. My M2 is very stiff to mount a lens on, the M5 less so and the M6 too easy. The vendor's claim does not seem right.
 
Thanks everyone. I thought it sounded odd - I did a bit of research before buying and no one seemed to raise this problem.

I tried 2 voigtlander 50mm f1.1, both with m-mounts. The adapter I tried was a voigtlander 50 and 75, the box describes it as "type II".

This is the vendor's reply:

"Did you also try a leica lens?
As far as I know the camera has an old bajonet with the round button and only very accurat Bajonetts will fit . The later models like M6 don´t show this problems with cheap lens."

As i said, it locked in a leica 50mm I tried at the shop.

On a side issue, the vendor has confirmed the body has had a recent service. My camera guys say that the focal frame pre-selector lever is too loose, and the rangefinder is a bit sloppy. They gave me a quote for all repairs, and the refund the vendor offered goes some way to meeting the bill for these repairs, but I will still be out of pocket by a couple of hundred dollars.

Regarding these additional "faults" my camera shop claims are present, the vendor says this:

" It is right back of the workshop with a full service - And I have warranty from my workshop too."

I'm minded to get it fixed locally, pay the extra and hope that it will be able to lock in CV lenses. It's funny, I've only had the body for 4 days now, but I've already become quite attached to it. There's something warm about having a camera round my neck that is as old as me ;)
 
Tolerances are a small thing when we mix brands, and those things happen...

My Leica Summicron 90 doesn't lock on any of my Voigtlander Bessas T, but it does on my Voigtländer R4M and R3A... In the beginning it seemed unacceptable to me, but it's not been relevant in any way...

In your case, selling the M4 or not depending on the money I needed, I'd buy a different camera, a very complete one, like the Ikon or an R3A to be prepared for different kinds of changing light, and for buying great Voigtländer or Zeiss glass with total confidence...

Cheers,

Juan
 
I don't own any Voigtlander M mount glass but did have a problem with a screw mount adapter, likely not voigtlander either. It would not allow the lens to lock on my M4. IIRC the solution was to slightly file back, ever so slightly, a part of the adapter to allow it to rotate a hair more to allow the locking pin on the M4 to fully engage. Other screw to M adapters, same brand, worked just fine. This was the only one I had trouble with.

Bob
 
As for the bayonet problem, sounds like thats the sellers problem.

As for the other "faults" thats your problem. Its a USED camera thats 50 years old.
 
M3- Voigt adapter - Locking Normally
M4-P Voigt adapter - Locking Normally
M7 - Voigt adapter had some play but locked normally ...

Hope this helps.
 
Return the camera, there's definitely something odd about the mount.
I had an M4 once and my Ultron 35/1.7 works just fine with Cosina adapter.
 
Echoing what others said. I use VC lenses on my M4 (in fact I'm using one of their latest lenses - the 35/1.2 V2) and they work perfectly.
 
My M3 (1.1 million serial) is a bit picky about non Leica lenses & adapters, my MP on the other hand is far mor forgiving and seems to accept anything except one very worn 50mm adapter.

I think it is down to wear on the locking pin - it gets rounded off over time if the user is careless about mounting & removing lenses (just my theory) YMMV
 
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Here is my bit of a contribution (and blasphemy as well).

When I got my M3, I mounted on it my Summicron 50 (latest type). It was a struggle! I tried another Leica lens and it went it effortlessly.

The key? A tiny bit of lubricant left over the lens mount. To be specific, on the camera ring. A very small amount that still could be perceived with the fingertip.

Much later, when buying other lenses and using other Leica bodies, I noticed a certain difficulty to make the lens turn and click. The solution: a minimal amount of lubricant on the camera ring, not on the lens mount. On the ring that sits around the hole in the camera, that same surface that rubs and comes in contact very tightly with the lens. And when I say a minimal amount, I mean a very small amount, a very thin layer (place a small drop of oil in your fingertip, rub it, and then put your fingertip on the camera ring; that will do the trick).

From what you describe, the lens mount simply doesn't travel well enough to click. Again, that's what I did to solve the problem with my M3, and later, much later, with my M4-2. The seller is just making up some story. I have used Konica, Leica, Zeiss and CV lenses in all my camera bodies and there's no difference among them.
 
It is usually the lens lock that acts up. Put one of the lenses that you have trouble mounting on it - and check that the "pin" on the lens lock snaps into the cut-out on the lens. Sometimes the the lens lock is not too worn. rounded off or bent. It can be the spring in under the lock that is weak and not pushing the pin correctly in place.
It is a 50 year old camera and things do wear - including lens locks and even the mount it self.
Check that on the lenses that mount properly - it sits flush all around the mount! I have seen M-mounts that have been damaged (dropped bodies etc) and will hold the lens a bit "skewed"
To replace or repair the lens lock pin should not be a big problem. It is still the same part as in 1954!
 
By locking do you mean the click? Or does it not stay in place at all?

Not all lens/body combos cause a definitive "click" but they still lock onto the body just fine.
 
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