M4 current prices

valdas

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With my new 8 elements Summicron replica waiting in the post office to be picked I decided to complement it with the M camera of my birth year. That would be M4. I checked prices - crazy... The best deal I found is a combo of silver M4 plus Rigid Summicron 50/2 for 1600-1700€. Both seem to be in nice condition. Is it too high? Based on ebay completed deals it does not sound outrageous, but ebay is ebay. Any thoughts?
 
I would agree that prices are crazy, but there was an M4 body posted here last week for $975 USD. The Japanese BIN M4 bodies are ranging from $1500 to ludicrous. There's one posted on Photrio for $1200 with recent CLA and warranty, so better prices are possible, though you'll pay more anyway for camera + lens. Sounds like your deal is a good one, if you can afford it. Does the seller offer returns?
 
I would agree that prices are crazy, but there was an M4 body posted here last week for $975 USD. The Japanese BIN M4 bodies are ranging from $1500 to ludicrous. There's one posted on Photrio for $1200 with recent CLA and warranty, so better prices are possible, though you'll pay more anyway for camera + lens. Sounds like your deal is a good one, if you can afford it. Does the seller offer returns?

It’s an ebay purchase, so I have a reasonable protection in case it is not as described.
 
Lots of dumb speculants involved lately. Here is Leica for sale group on FB. One moron is selling two trashed M4-2 for 1400 and 1600 USD. Missing flash terminals covered with duct tape. Missing plastic on film advance and wrong film doors. Pealing of leatherette.

Rigid Cron with M4 attached to it for 1700 Euro isn't high at all.
 
About a year ago I paid ~$1400 for M4+ZM Sonnar 50mm 1.5 on the notorious auction site. The cosmetic condition was good but it turned out it needed a trip to Youxin as one of the shutter curtains was coming detached. Some of the prices I've seen recently seem insane to me.

~S
 
Prices and demand change. Now, i'd agree $5300 USD for a new MP film, and $8300 USD for an M10-R.... to me, those are crazy prices. Premium cameras in high demand have had prices rising for the last few years. Plaubel Makina for $2500, Rolleiflex 2.8F for $2500+ in clean condition, those are the recent norm. Look at the 'crazy' prices for point and shoots... Ricoh GR and Contax T.....and you can't even have them repaired. Ko.Fe. you're right, demanding top dollar for a beat-up camera is really looking for the buyer who doesn't know better. As always there is a range of prices from $1150 USD for a chrome one...to those sky-is-the-limit prices in 'mint' condition in boxes, for the collector types. Still, in good condition, they're a film camera that will keep on ticking. I like them & i use them.
 
You mention P&S... Huss yesterday pointed to an ebay link where Konica C35 pop up (blue) is priced at 1500$ 🙂 He said he would buy a red one if it’s in good shape and cost less than 100$. It was a shock to me - I had one lying on my shelf (bought for 0,5 or 1€) and a few years ago I gave it away... Like many others P&S... Checked prices now - 150$ is considered “normal” for that colorful plastic 🙂. Is that a bubble that will burst one day?
 
Sometimes it’s being un the right place at the right time. Last year after paying a premium price to a popular online seller for a LN M4 which needed work, a local shop sold a boxed, mostly unused, late run black chrome for $800.
 
Sometimes it’s being un the right place at the right time. Last year after paying a premium price to a popular online seller for a LN M4 which needed work, a local shop sold a boxed, mostly unused, late run black chrome for $800.

Absolutely! That is a crazy good price. The other thing is that even pre-covid, brick & mortar shops that deal film cameras are fewer and far between. Going to a premium dealer like Tamarkin, or Leica Shop Vienna, or buying on ebay with listing fees & ebay fees and now tax and shipping....is going to cost more.

& Although this thread is about M4.....the same is true about other film M cameras. Early double-stroke M3 used to be available for really low dollars.
So your price will vary if you're actively looking for/wanting/needing one.....or if you trip across one by accident.
 
I bought my Ex++ M4 (recent CLA) on this site 4 years ago for $800. The prices have skyrocketed since then -- it is hard to touch one in my condition for under $1200 now, and many are much more. If I'd have known, I'd have bought five of them!
 
Yep, there's someone selling a boxed M4 near me for $2350! I remember buying M4's for less than $1000 just a few years back, and even bought an original black paint M4 for $2200 just about 3-4 years ago. I have held onto 3 M4's just because of what I've been seeing on trend and will likely just keep them at this point.

Prices seem to be all over the place for the older non-metered M cameras, as the spike on interest of what would probably considered entry level M's (M2/M3/M4), though clearly the best generation of M's. Now the prices are bumping up, keeping people from buying the once cheap-ish Leicas. It's a bummer.

I liked it a few years ago where you could try out different cameras, and if you didn't like them, you could sell em, and buy em again if you wanted. Now if you sell a camera, you may likely not find one at a good price or in as good condition.
 
OK, it is what it is - this deal seems to be quite normal. We agreed on 1650€, so assuming the price of rigid Summicron in similar condition is in the range of 600-800€, the body would be around 1000€, probably less, not too bad. I might sell Summicron later, I have v4 model, but that can wait. De-GAS’ing is now due and I have some stuff to sell which, fortunately, also appreciated compared to what I paid... I’m not sure if I need to keep two Bessas (R2a and R4M) and all the wide angle lenses which I do not use too often...
 
Compared to the late 1990s, prices on M2, M3 and M4 bodies seem a bit cheaper today especially when inflation is taken into account, while Leica lenses seem more expensive, though not nearly as much as they were in 2009-11 during the Leica Bubble years.
 
I think the M4/Rigid combo you’re considering is fairly priced, if they’re in excellent cosmetic and mechanical condition. I sold an M4 on RFF a few weeks ago for $1275. It had been recently CLA’d by Youxin and had new viewfinder windows installed (which are a really nice upgrade, FWIW). The body was very clean. The rangefinder had a couple of very tiny spots from mask aging. Very nice camera. I wasn’t trying to make a killing on it...it was a good deal for me and the buyer.

I also bought a 50 DR with goggles on RFF about a year ago, from a seller in the Netherlands. Paid about $975, shipped. Mint cosmetics. The lens turned out to have coating deterioration around the edges of the inside front element. Bothers me a bit, but I’ve tested it and can see no effects at all on image quality. Could have returned it but decided to keep it. Maybe a fair deal overall... maybe not.

I also recently bought a Leica iiif on RFF (thanks, Gerry). Recent CLA, incredible condition, fair price (probably underpriced, actually). I think these are the real value in Leica’s today, even with the cost of an external viewfinder, if you can appreciate their idiosyncrasies.

I mention all this because actual condition, and CLA costs, make a big difference in pricing and value. I prefer to buy gear that that you can inspect and return if necessary. Private sellers on RFF generally offer that, as do some EBay sellers and dealers like Tamarkin and Igor’s. Patience is a virtue when buying gear, although not usually one of mine, unfortunately.
 
Still not quite as crazy as the mid to late 80's when there were people in the US at shows and advertising in publications like Shutterbug buying only to send off to Japan and resell for super-duper crazy prices to Japanese speculators/collectors. I can remember when M4's were unobtainable for less than $2,000.
 
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I mention all this because actual condition, and CLA costs, make a big difference in pricing and value.......Patience is a virtue when buying gear, although not usually one of mine, unfortunately.

Absolutely agree with you. With the price of the cameras these days, two-way shipping alone, with insurance can add a good chunk to the CLA.
 
1600-1700€ is actually a pretty darn good deal for an M4 with a rigid cron. Prices will always fluctuate with older M's as the supply is obviously limited and the demand has increased exponentially. You happen to be buying an M4 at a time when Leica cameras are going for all-time highs. Just 4 years ago I bought my absolute mint M6 for $800 and a year ago I picked up an M4 on here for $700. Prices have skyrocketed since. I personally wouldn't buy one in the current market as the prices seem to be peaking since they are approaching M-A and M-P used prices. Maybe settle for a voigtlander body and wait out until the film frenzy dies down a little or just be patient about it, good deals do pop up quite often but they go quick.
 
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