M4 has broken down for the fourth time! Curtain detached.

Johnmcd

Johnmcd

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First world problem having an M4 break down but...

I first purchased it from a dealer in Frankfurt in Nov 2011.

In March 2012 it had the shutter curtain detach. Sent it to the US for repair and the German company kindly paid half for the repair. Told by repairer that this can be typical of M4's that have not been CLA'd after purchase and is a 'weak' spot.

August 2012 the curtain detaches again. Sent back to the US and kindly repaired under warranty. Repairer uses a stronger M3 curtain.

December 2012 the curtain detaches a third time! Once again it is sent back and repaired under warranty. The reason given was that the curtain used last time had a factory defect and this problem should not happen again.

It is now Jan 2015 and the today the shutter curtain has detached again for the fourth time in just over 3 years. On average I run a couple of rolls through it per month since I have got it.

As anyone else had this issue? Surely I can't be the only one?

What should I do? Do I keep sending it back under warranty at $90 a pop for postage and insurance? Or try somebody in Australia? The repairer in the US has always been quick, courteous and accommodating. But the camera continues to break down with exactly the same issue.

As much as I love the camera I am just about done with this lack of reliability. I've never had any of my other cameras ever break down at all let alone four times! My OM's just keep going, no CLA, no nothing.

I was thinking of a M6 (for the meter) but now it might just have to be a Zeiss Ikon ZM.

p72272989.jpg


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Images above taken today which are identical to the images taken in 2012.

John
 
Have all of the repairs been by the same person? I'd strongly consider contacting someone else for the work by now - and then try using the camera heavily for a while to shake out an issues.

I totally get the desire to move to another camera though. I don't know if I'd have put up with it after the 3rd repair personally.
 
That's bizarre ... there has to be some inherant problem that hasn't been picked up on surely!
 
Keith said:
That's bizarre ... there has to be some inherant problem that hasn't been picked up on surely!
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That's what I reckon Keith. It just doesn't seem right. The camera is in very good condition (1967) in every other aspect.
 
Brian Legge said:
Have all of the repairs been by the same person? I'd strongly consider contacting someone else for the work by now - and then try using the camera heavily for a while to shake out an issues.

I totally get the desire to move to another camera though. I don't know if I'd have put up with it after the 3rd repair personally.
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Yep, all by the same person. I must say that the repairer has been great and been straight onto it. I don't have a problem but how do I get a guarantee that it is going to last? Is this common with M's?

Black ZM for sale anyone?
 
I would send it to either Sherry Krauter or Dan Goldberg and see what they will say. However, your best (and most expensive) choice is having the M4 overhauled by Leica Camera AG.

I had to sent my M4-P for an overhaul to Leica Camera AG after to much lubricants (oil) applied by a repair person in his attempt to get the winding mechanism smooth had ruined some internal gears of my camera.
 
Keith said:
That's bizarre ... there has to be some inherant problem that hasn't been picked up on surely!
Click to expand...
I'm with Kieth on this one. This camera for sure was worked on prior to your original purchase, and has something/issue missing since that time, and no one has picked up on it since. I would send it to Solm's and have the factory look at it.
 
maddoc said:
I would send it to either Sherry Krauter or Dan Goldberg and see what they will say. However, your best (and most expensive) choice is having the M4 overhauled by Leica Camera AG.

I had to sent my M4-P for an overhaul to Leica Camera AG after to much lubricants (oil) applied by a repair person in his attempt to get the winding mechanism smooth had ruined some internal gears of my camera.
Click to expand...

When the curtain was first fixed it was noted by the repairer that it had previously been 'filled' with oil during a service which sounds very similar to your story. What can I expect if I send it to Leica Camera AG? Price? Time?
 
bucs said:
Is the problem inherent to the M4 model? Thanks
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Bucs; it is not. My retired factory trained tech in Toronto told me about a M4 around 10 years ago that had a similar problem. He mentioned that a metal connector had been put in back words, and the previous tech missed it. On sending the camera to Solms; you have the insurance and shipping costs, plus the return time of about 6 weeks. Don't forget to go to your Customs office and get forms filled out so on return your not hammered with added costs. This form is attached to the outside of the box when coming into Australia, so customs know it's not a new purchase.
 
oltimer said:
Bucs; it is not. My retired factory trained tech in Toronto told me about a M4 around 10 years ago that had a similar problem. He mentioned that a metal connector had been put in back words, and the previous tech missed it. On sending the camera to Solms; you have the insurance and shipping costs, plus the return time of about 6 weeks. Don't forget to go to your Customs office and get forms filled out so on return your not hammered with added costs. This form is attached to the outside of the box when coming into Australia, so customs know it's not a new purchase.
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Thanks 'Oltimer'.

With my first repair I was told, 'M4 has weak shutter joints'. It was also noted that my camera had the curtains attached in the wrong way (backwards perhaps?).

I don't mind the postage and time to Leica AG at all but how much more expensive are they than the other guys normally mentioned around here?

Thanks - John
 
Johnmcd, to pin it down on cost "guesstimate"; probably about $200US. I do know it's about 6 weeks on average. If you send them this complete thread that you explained it here; I;m sure they will know exactly the problem. They do have the parts for sure, and will not be putting your old used part back in. Good Luck with this.
 
oltimer said:
Johnmcd, to pin it down on cost "guesstimate"; probably about $200US. I do know it's about 6 weeks on average. If you send them this complete thread that you explained it here; I;m sure they will know exactly the problem. They do have the parts for sure, and will not be putting your old used part back in. Good Luck with this.
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That's great info. Did you send an email first? If so to whom?

Or did you just follow the info here http://uk.leica-camera.com/Service-Support/Repair-Maintenance

It all seems very digital and brand you camera oriented though.

Sorry about all the questions. Hope you can help.

Thanks - John
 
I sent in a 2 cam 35 R Summicron to them last year to update it to a 3 cam etc. Your email address looks right to me, or at least you can try it, and see if it does not bounce? I spent slightly over $350 Canadian with my insurance and shipping total.
 
Hi,

Why not an e-mail to them in Wetzlar, explaining the problem and asking the questions? That way you'll get it straight...

Regards, David
 
I forgot to ask you if the shutter blinds separated when you had it at almost full ratchet?. My factory trained tech as I was saying earlier that was what happened in the other case and old lubes. My M4 has been done twice by him, and the newer lubes from the early 90,s are far superior to what was put in the camera in 1967.
 
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