Johnmcd
Well-known
Thanks for all the advice (and empathy).
The camera is (and was described as by the repairer) in very good condition. It is not a beater and it cost me 1000 euros in late 2011. That's not to say there isn't something inherently wrong with an adjacent system that is causing the problem and it has been serviced poorly at least once in its life. I kind of think that this must be the only logical reason but it has now been opened at least 4 times by an experienced technician and nothing untoward found.
I am loath to sell it for a number of reasons. One, It was my first M and in all other respects it is a really nice example. Two, I have enough other cameras to use (including and M3) to allow me to send it off for however long it takes to fix. And finally, there's a part of me that just wants it fixed with the problem found and identified. However, having spent a little above market in the first place, I really don't want to keep throwing money at it until it becomes the most expensive M4 ever
I will send emails to Leica, the original repairer and others that have been recommended in Australia and see what is said, then make a decision. Either way it appears that others have had curtain failure with M4's.
As I write this I am looking at a well used Minolta X700 that was purchased for $70 with motor drive. I know nothing of its history but would assume that a CLA is alien to this camera nor even necessary. Now I know it's like comparing a quartz time piece to a clockwork watch but the Leica is meant to be known for its reliability. I took the X700 fishing in a boat the other day because it is a great image taker and it only cost me $70. Regardless, I suspect the only thing that would have stopped it (aside from dead batteries, mind you an OM1 costs no more), is a trip overboard.
Thanks again and I'll keep you posted.
Cheers - John
The camera is (and was described as by the repairer) in very good condition. It is not a beater and it cost me 1000 euros in late 2011. That's not to say there isn't something inherently wrong with an adjacent system that is causing the problem and it has been serviced poorly at least once in its life. I kind of think that this must be the only logical reason but it has now been opened at least 4 times by an experienced technician and nothing untoward found.
I am loath to sell it for a number of reasons. One, It was my first M and in all other respects it is a really nice example. Two, I have enough other cameras to use (including and M3) to allow me to send it off for however long it takes to fix. And finally, there's a part of me that just wants it fixed with the problem found and identified. However, having spent a little above market in the first place, I really don't want to keep throwing money at it until it becomes the most expensive M4 ever
I will send emails to Leica, the original repairer and others that have been recommended in Australia and see what is said, then make a decision. Either way it appears that others have had curtain failure with M4's.
As I write this I am looking at a well used Minolta X700 that was purchased for $70 with motor drive. I know nothing of its history but would assume that a CLA is alien to this camera nor even necessary. Now I know it's like comparing a quartz time piece to a clockwork watch but the Leica is meant to be known for its reliability. I took the X700 fishing in a boat the other day because it is a great image taker and it only cost me $70. Regardless, I suspect the only thing that would have stopped it (aside from dead batteries, mind you an OM1 costs no more), is a trip overboard.
Thanks again and I'll keep you posted.
Cheers - John
raid
Dad Photographer
Seriously speaking, I would email Don Goldberb about it, and if he has the time for a reasonably quick turn around, send DAG the M4 for repair.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
Just a couple of points; I reckon something was done at the first service that snookered it. So now it has to be undone. This seems obvious as it is a rare complaint few have heard of.
Watches: clockwork can be excellent and quartz dire. It depends on a lot of things, including servicing, just like cameras.
Regards, David
Just a couple of points; I reckon something was done at the first service that snookered it. So now it has to be undone. This seems obvious as it is a rare complaint few have heard of.
Watches: clockwork can be excellent and quartz dire. It depends on a lot of things, including servicing, just like cameras.
Regards, David
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Yeah, at least we know that the shutter is more reliable on the M240...
don't know about the rest
One of my friends received one of the first M240s available in the area here when it was first released. He uses it in his work. He's since made 60,000 plus exposures with it over the past year and some that he's had it, and gawdonlyknows how many hours of video footage. He's had exactly zero problems with it and continues to use it every day.
I don't know how many people put 1600+ rolls of 36 exposure through their Leica M film cameras in the camera's entire lifetime, and I couldn't say how many years of such usage the M240 is going to stand up to, but I would say that it's reliable enough.
Heck, my measly 7500 exposures with the M9 since January 2012 represents more exposures than I made with my IIc, and I had it much longer (1969 to 1985)... ;-)
G
literiter
Well-known
This just might be the problem here. Sometimes, even a repairer who is great in many areas can fall down in one.
blue4130
Well-known
This is where I would start looking / pointing techs to. If it was filled with oil, how can the glue be expected to stick properly? Oil can penetrate the pores of the metal and anything else inside, once that is done, the glue has much less ability to bond well. Just wiping everything down with cleaner might not be enough, an acid dip or some other deep cleaning might be required.
Just a thought.
ChrisN
Striving
Hi John; sorry to hear of the problems with your M4. I've had mine (a '69 camera) since 2005 basically without any problems excepting a light leak and a sticky shutter at 1s. I sent it to Sherry Krauter for repair, and she replaced the shutter curtain and gave it a full servicing (I can't locate the invoice to see exactly what work was done, or the cost). It has been flawless now for a few years since that work was done.
Stick with it and you'll have a camera that you can trust and love to use. As you say, your first M is special.
Stick with it and you'll have a camera that you can trust and love to use. As you say, your first M is special.
Johnmcd
Well-known
Hi Chris,
Nice to hear from you mate, it's been a while. Hope all is well. I'll certainly look into using Sherry also.
Cheers - John
Frontman
Well-known
I would say that it is an inherent problem, I have had three curtain failures in two different M4's. In one of the cameras, I had one curtain replaced, and the second curtain failed the day I got the camera back. It had been serviced by Leica's authorized repairers in Tokyo, who were nice enough not to charge me to replace the second curtain.
The first M4 camera I owned needed a CLA, when I sent it to the repairer, he recommended that I replace the curtains while he had it, he said that the old curtains are prone to failure. I wasn't sure if he was telling the truth or not, but I had him replace the curtains, and the camera never gave me a problem, but the two other M4's I owned were not so fortunate.
Highway 61
Revisited
It's a very common problem with M4 shutters, the curtain foil is just inserted in the vertical metallic clamp, and it detaches over time.
Having the shutter replaced by someone like Sherry Krauter should solve the problem, because she will probably use a recent shutter kit.
Having the shutter replaced by someone like Sherry Krauter should solve the problem, because she will probably use a recent shutter kit.
matt335
Well-known
JohnMCD
reading through your threads been informative. I too have an M4 with a dislodged/jammed curtain. I am really hesitant to mail my camera overseas (I live in Australia). I have not found a reputable repairer in Australia yet.
Just checking in if you have had your M4 fixed yet and where you sent it. Many thanks for your time.
kind regards
Matt.
reading through your threads been informative. I too have an M4 with a dislodged/jammed curtain. I am really hesitant to mail my camera overseas (I live in Australia). I have not found a reputable repairer in Australia yet.
Just checking in if you have had your M4 fixed yet and where you sent it. Many thanks for your time.
kind regards
Matt.
Johngwill
Established
Have you tried Jorg Heumuller of European Camera Service in Melbourne http://europeancameraservice.com/
He is Leica trained.
He is Leica trained.
Freakscene
Obscure member
Freakscene
Obscure member
But also see https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=164369
So they might not be the best bet.
Marty
So they might not be the best bet.
Marty
twvancamp
Thom
I hadn't heard of this (apparently well-known) problem and am now looking at my M4 like a time bomb.
Is this something that can be avoided with preemptive service? Or just wait to see if it goes? I don't know anything about my 69 M4's service history.
Is this something that can be avoided with preemptive service? Or just wait to see if it goes? I don't know anything about my 69 M4's service history.
SyPat
Established
In my opinion, the problem is not with the curtains, but with the ribbons.