M4 help needed - stiff rewind

[wintoid]

I just took delivery of a beautiful M4. I'm saying goodbye to the M8 and going back to film completely. Everything seems OK so far, and I've just put a roll through the camera. It seemed too good to be true, and then I reached the point where I had to rewind the film, and it was incredibly stiff.

I've had a little attempt at diagnosis, and I found that the R button releases the "clutch" (or whatever) on the sprockets, and they move freely, but the "tulip" is very stiff to rotate. Is there something I can adjust myself to reduce the stiffness of the tulip?

Thanks

 

[Darshan]

Some degree of stiffness is expected with roll inside.
Do you hear the film moving, if yes, I won't worry about it.

 

[wintoid]

Hi Dan,

Thanks for your response. The film does rewind, but it's incredibly stiff and requires a lot of force. I have other Ms so I know how it *should* feel, and this isn't just the usual "it gets stiff at the end of the roll" kind of thing. It's stiff all the way through, almost to the point of being unrewindable.

 

[Vickko]

It shouldn't be so stiff. I just tried mine, and the "tulip" does rotate backwards, certainly not freely, but with a minor amount of force. Note that the tulip must slip a bit, as it takes up the film as it winds on a larger and larger roll radius.

Also check the wind lever and knob itself - is that the sticking point? It is held by a couple threaded washers, and it they come loose, jamming and stiffness can occur.

Vick

 

[wintoid]

Hi Vick,

It's definitely the tulip. Once the film comes off the tulip, the wind lever rotates very smoothly.

 

[Vickko]

Okay, I don't remember how to take the tulip off, but chances are that it needs a cleaning and a proper lubrication. I think there was a big screw that goes up the middle and holds it all together. Remember, it has to be tight enough to take up the film, but must slip a bit to accommodate the wound up film making a larger radius.

Shouldn't be a difficult job.

Vick

 

[wintoid]

Hmm in fact, now that I think about it, the wind-on is also pretty stiff, but the lever is so ratchet-ed (is that a word?) that you don't notice so much.

That big screw that goes up the middle of the tulip, is that what controls the tightness of the tulip?

 

[mooge]

ok.

I flipped through the M2-R service manual and on page 124, there's an exploded diagram. the big screw holds the tulip and some springs in place, but the important bit is the washer that makes contact with the tulip or whatever that rotates. the springs provide pressure, and the washer provides the friction. the spring pressure isn't usually adjustable (hey, it's a Leica so mabye it is), but I'd guess that there's something gummed up on the washer or tulip.

oh, and I've never done this so I could be horribly wrong.

cheers.

 

[Vickko]

The wind-on should not be stiff. The wind-on does a lot, e.g. tensions the shutter, advances the film, advances the counter. If it is stiff, it is not a good sign.

I think you camera needs a good CLA.

Vick

Hmm in fact, now that I think about it, the wind-on is also pretty stiff, but the lever is so ratchet-ed (is that a word?) that you don't notice so much.

That big screw that goes up the middle of the tulip, is that what controls the tightness of the tulip?

 

[Mister E]

Sherry fixed my M4 that was doing the same thing.

 

[Freakscene]

If the wind-on is also stiff the problem is almost certainly the slotted washer under the rewind crank coming loose and bearing up on the crank. This will also make the tulip seem stiff from below.

Marty

 

[wintoid]

Thanks all. The vendor has said he will sort this out for me, so I guess I won't mess with it. I just have to be patient. But it's so beautiful!