M4 or M2?

existrandom

existrandom

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hello all,

i am thinking on getting a used M body as an everyday shooter; hard to decide whether i should get the M2+quickload kit or an M4

can anyone please share your experience in terms of use and handling? (viewfinder/ loading/ shutter noise/ workmanship, etc)

i shoot with 35, 50 or wider

and don't suggest me to buy both :)

thanks and cheers!

lee
 
Look, they are pretty much the same camera. It's the price and the FILM LOADING that you have to consider. The M4 has the "quick" loading ease of the current Leica M cameras. The M2 and M3 have a slower loading process. Also the M4 has that fiddly little rewinding crank and the M2 has the pull up knob.

If that doesn't bother you, find the best camera of those two for the least amount of money and you're in! That's what I would do. The one that is in the best shape with the least amount of use or outer damage is the one. It would matter to me if it was an M2 or an M4 because I like the M4 loading. The levers on the front of the camera are redesigned as well but the basic camera is exactly the same.
 
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One great thing about M cameras is that they all handle very similarly. An M4 is considered to be the last model made with the craftsmanship of the "old" Leicas. That meaning, like the M3 and M2. With a quickload conversion in the M2 my guess would be that you would find them to be very similar cameras. The M4 has the tilted rewind crank, auto resetting frame counter and 135 framelines. The M4 also commands more money from collectors. For an everyday shooter, I would choose an M2 due to the potential of getting one less expensively.
 
The M2 is a nice camera but I would go with the M4 as an everyday shooter (I have an M3 and M4-P). The M4 is a little newer (not that it matters), has a faster rewind and reload, and to me it feels different (better) in the hand. Of course these are my opinions, prepare fpr the others :)

Todd
 
What Rover and Steve said. Let opportunity be your guide. Get the best camera you can for the money you have. You can't go wrong with either camera.
 
It was all said above... Except for one thing: only a few days ago, I would have told you to go for the M4 because of the fast loading...

I changed my mind. I like the loading in the M2 and M3: it saves you a lot of grief in misloads. However, if you have to put the film in the camera really fast (and at times you HAVE TO), go for the M4.

But any of those will serve you well! :) You win either way.
 
thank you all for your replies,

it seems that it all boil down to the loading/rewind system, is there anything else?

are the rangefinder/viewfinder optics and mechanism the same for both Ms, apart from the 135 framline?

and yes, SolaresLarrave, sometimes i need to rewind and load a film while i am walking; and i can do that well enough with my Canon l-1, but i am not very sure how "slow" or "fast" loading an M is like...

thanks

lee
 
I saw a mint M4-2, black with a 50mm lens in one of my shops I go to for A$2400. I asked the bloke if I could work it off.. and he said no :( It has orginal boxes, only had 3 rolls put though it. The bloke who owned it was too scared to use it! Damn nice looking thing too.
 
I have both an M4P and an M2 and for me the only real advantage of the M4P is the self-zeroing counter -- but then, the M2 has both a quick-load spool (which I actually prefer to the later version) and a bolt-on rewind crank. The M2 flares out a lot less when shooting at night with lights in shot (or even out of shot) so I prefer it for low-light. Even without the rewind crank I don't find M-rewind uncomfortably slow -- I use my MP without a crank...

Cheers,

Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com)
 
Like Roger, I have had the M4P (Canada) and still have both MP and M2 (with a quickload mod of some sort). I don't find much difference in handling between the M2 and MP apart from the slightly easier loading of the MP.

On the M4P, I was always worried about the joint in the rewind crank - I have heard that this is a point of weakness on this model. Also understand from one or two dealers that Canada assembled bodies are not quite up to the original quality - one of them will not take them in PX as he has had so many problems.

I think you should go with the recommendations about condition and cost above, plus which one feels right in your hand, then worry about whether you need the 135 frame lines (personally I can count on the fingers of one hand how often I have used a 135 in the past 10 years),
 
I considered the same choice and went for an M4; prices seem to be softening for them, they're perhaps 20% or $150 more than an M2, and by the time you've bought a quick load kit and the rewind crank, there's little difference. However, fewer of them come up, so you might have to be a little more patient. Some of the other comments here refer to the M4-P, which is a slightly simplified model which, while being great value for money, is not in some people's vew the same build quality.

As for how my M4 handles, I can't tell you. I invested some of my ill-gotten eBay gains (from jukebox tubes, old bakelite ashtrays and other crap I had in the loft, which is how I finance all my cameras) in a Shintaro respray, and Shintaro is teaching me to acquire a zen-like patience by not returning my emails...
 
Paul T. said:
Shintaro is teaching me to acquire a zen-like patience by not returning my emails...
Click to expand...

LOL Love that. Seems I'm learning the same lesson from the same teacher!! :D
Mike.
 
I just bought an M2 body last week for $975. Exc+ rated. A store down the street had a Good M3 body for $650. The salesman told me that the M2 owner was selling that one and an M2-P to buy a digital. If you shop around you may find some consignment sales like that.

My only previous Leica experience is a IIIb and IIIf, The M2 is a lot quieter, easier to see through and easier to load. Shuitter is almost as quiet as the leaf shutter in my Retina IIIS.

-Paul
 
Oops! M2-R not M2-P. Now that I am a Leica M owner I have to be more careful. I could get my Leica license revoked.

-Paul
 
I've had an M4 and really liked it. To bad I sold it a while ago. As I mentioned here before DAG will make any M2 load like an M4/6/7/P for $150 if done at the time of a CLA. I did it and I like it. It is now an M2-R, though I can't REALLY say it is one 'cause that would be bad.


FWIW the only time in 22+years of M ownership I've had a rewind crank fail, well get bent a bit when I dropped the camera. All my fault.

I have the rewind crank for Photo-equip on the M2 now. What can I say, I like cranks over knobs.
 
I was in the same position as you are now. I decided on an M2 mainly because they seem to go for a bit less money. And I found an M2 with the quick load modification, which clinched the deal for me. I think that with the QL mod the M2 is similar to the M4.
 
I have never had an M4 or later, so I don't know how the loading feature differs from the quick-load kit in an M2... I put the quick-load in my M2 about 3 years after I got the camera, and I've liked the improvement. I've heard others say it makes the loading worse, not better, and I've never understood that. Also, I like the knob rewind. :)
 
I have a slow load M2 and an M4. The self resetting counter on the M4 is nicer than the one on the M2. Otherwise I prefer the M2 with the very reliable film loading and it has a nicer advance lever.

If you are in a hurry, maybe you should take a look at a Hexar RF? You do not have to wind or rewind manually. This makes a bigger difference to any manual M camera than the difference you find between an M2 and an M4.

Perhaps you just wanted an old mechanical Leica? Either the M2 or M4 will do fine. The slow load of the M2 is widely exaggerated. An M4 with the M2 advance lever would be a nice combo..
 
I have an M2 and M4-2. Some more things to consider:
- The Canadian models tend to be a better bargain, as most collectors or purists go after the Wetzlar ones.
- The M2 frame counter is subject to being accidentally moved when handling the camera, such as putting it into or out of the bag.
- If you're into infrared, the M2 is easier to load in the dark or a changing bag. The quick load models imply that you will have to poke your fingers around dangerously close to the shutter curtains.
- The hot shoe on the M4 is nice if you plan to use flash.
 
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