M4-P, 50/2 Cron w/eyes, meter

[photobizzz]

I am in the process of looking for my first M body and found a deal for $1400 for a Black M4-P, 50/2 Cron DR w/eyes and meter on ebay. I just dont want to pay too much and havent had experience with these bodies. Or would I be better off putting the $1400 towards a M6 and adapter for my CV lenses? Any help?

Thanks and Merry Christmas

Colin

 

[gavinlg]

Personally..... I'd go the m6. You can get a super nice user one for under a grand... somewhere around 900 if you look hard enough. Sure, the DR summicron is a beaut lens, but with the m6 you got a light meter in the camera. Thats a big thing for me.

 

[dacaccia]

if you are used to your Bessa - why not taking this M4-P. Price is ok, I think - if the Leicameter is fully functionally! you should know that before buying. The Leicameter should be the "MR" (the last one); it needs PX625 batteries resp. its Weincell aequivalent.
The M4-P is a very very quiet and quick camera, a fine body, if it is in good condition.

Cheers,
dacaccia

 

[cmogi10]

I don't think that's a good deal, pass on that one.

 

[ferider]

Like Carl said: you should be able to find a good M4P for US 800 and the
DR for around 400, if you look hard.

If you don't care for the 28mm framelines, an M2 might be a better/cheaper
alternative.

Roland.

 

[literiter]

For myself, and this is only an opinion, I'd strongly consider the simplest and most reliable mechanism. This means cut out the light meter and extras in the M6 and M7.

The M2 in good condition can be fabulous, the M4 in good condition is sublime but can be really expensive. I'd own an M4 but I think I may covet the thing and not use it.

The M4-P can be got for reasonable money. It seems to be somewhat undervalued by the collectors, so if you find one it good condition that you like, get it.
I use mine with a handheld light meter and guess a fair amount. You would be surprised at how the human mind can do better than a light meter.

A simple system like this can take an incredible beating and still work flawlessly.

 

[photobizzz]

I am also thinking about the R4A as an option, although I love the Leica "feel" as I had a couple of LTM Leicas for the money ($669 from cameraquest) I get a 21-50 VF with Apature priority shooting and the M mount I want. I still really want a Leica but am also trying to be practical as the army dosent pay as much as it should. I have gotten spoiled on a built in light meter and although I dont hate using an external meter, I dont like having to carry around something else. Decisions, decisions...I guess if my hard choices in life are which expensive camera to buy I shouldnt complain..LOL

 

[HuubL]

Well... from my experience (and from what I have heard from others, professional photographers here in Japan, and also in the internet) the M4-P is a very reliable camera. The only advantage of the M6 is the build-in meter if one considers this as an advantage.

The M4-P might be a great camera, but 1400 for one with a DR is overpriced a bit. Now if it were an M4 with DR, that would be different.

 

[maddoc]

The M4-P might be a great camera, but 1400 for one with a DR is overpriced a bit. Now if it were an M4 with DR, that would be different.

Yep, 1400$ for the M4-P + DR Summicron + meter is quite expensive. On the other hand, a M4 with DR for the same price might be hard to find.

 

[photobizzz]

I have seen a few M6's go for $950 or so here on RFF, wish one of those would pop up. I havent seen alot of M bodies being sold lately here in our classifieds. Could someone enlighten me on the diff between a M4 and M4-P?

 

[maddoc]

The M4 is made in Wetzlar (Germany) and the last M Leica assembled in the old Leica style (despite the M5). It has the frame lines for 35, 50 + 135, and 90 mm. Basically, the M4 is the combination of the M2 and M3 with rewind crank instead of knob and the first M Leica with improved (faster) take up spool.

The M4-P is a Canadian produced, cheaper (and newer) M Leica, being the first with 6 frame lines (28 + 90, 35 + 135, 50 + 75 mm), no self timer, gears made from steel, can be motorized, and a modified frame line illumination (more prone to flare).

 

[Philippe D.]

there are no major conceptual or quality differences between the M4 and the M4-P.

Don't you mean M4-2 instead of M4 ?

 

[Joop van Heijgen]

Don't you mean M4-2 instead of M4 ?

I mean the M4.

The M4-2 is another story! The M4-2 got many technical problems.

It was produced in Canada with 'old fashioned' machines of the older M4 Wetzlar cameras...

To produce the M4-P Leitz Canada has to make new machines for it...

 

[Philippe D.]

Hi Joop,

I mean the M4.
(...)
To produce the M4-P Leitz Canada has to make new machines for it...

This is maybe true for the last batch of M4-Ps, who looks like the M6, but other than the viewfinder with 28-75 frame, they are similar in any way with the M4-2.
Not to compare with the M4, which is another construction with no plastic, and no iron used as in the M4-2 and the P.

 

[Joop van Heijgen]

Hi Joop, This is maybe true for the last batch of M4-Ps, who looks like the M6, but other than the viewfinder with 28-75 frame, they are similar in any way with the M4-2.
Not to compare with the M4, which is another construction with no plastic, and no iron used as in the M4-2 and the P.

The iron gears of the M4-P means not another structural construction of the camera.
Plastic is difficult to find in the M4-P....

To produce the M4-P Leitz Canada made new production machines for it.

The M4-2 is made with the 'old' Wetzlar M4 machines. They are specially moved from Wetzlar. Because they are worn out they replaces the machines by new ones,,,

 

[roguewave]

Buy the best, M3.

 

[Maxapple88]

I have an M4-P and its a true joy to pick up every day. In addition, it really comes across as a workhorse - just a sturdy, solid tool. The metering isn't a big deal I think, after 5 rolls you don't actually need an external one anymore.

I've heard it feels better than an M6, could not say from personal experience though.

 

[PaulDalex]

Joop,
could you give me contact info of your Leica Repair man in Holland?
Do you recommend him?
Sooner or later I will have to CLA my M5 (ok it is off-topic but I understand that to send it in Solms is very expensive).
All the best
Paul

 

[ampguy]

I agree

I agree

if you're going to use metering a lot, the external ones, even the shoe mounted ones can make it slower grabbing your camera out of the bag. I'd recommend a built-in meter camera.

Also, factor in something for a good CLA and rewind system fix, if it hasn't been done already.

Personally..... I'd go the m6. You can get a super nice user one for under a grand... somewhere around 900 if you look hard enough. Sure, the DR summicron is a beaut lens, but with the m6 you got a light meter in the camera. Thats a big thing for me.