M4-P: Any particular weaknesses/idiosyncracies?

[F456]

Some recent regular browsing in our local camera shop has revealed an unusually large influx of Leica M items over the last few weeks. Today I came away with a very clean-looking M4-P which at a layman's inspection seems in good order. The rangefinder seems OK, the shutter speeds sound right from memory as against typical M6 noises and the inside is very clean and new-looking. No dents or dings on the outside; the only marks are scuffing by the film advance lever on the back of the top plate, but I'm used to this from my M6TTL as well.

Does the M4-P have any troublesome traits? I like the fact it has no meter to worry about - let's just hope my Sekonic is still working!

Also, this can't be right - or can it? The three pairs of finder framelines all seem brighter than the ones in my M6, M6TTL and M7. Could it be that Canadian-made kit is actually better than the German?

Any anecdotes or information from M4-P users much appreciated.

Tom

 

[Livesteamer]

If I remember correctly, sometime in the M4-2 M4P era there was a lens omitted from the range finder system and the wind gears went from brass to steel. It sounds like you have enough experience to check out its function. Others here will know much more about this than I do. Good Luck. Joe

 

[Daryl J.]

Have it CLA'ed and enjoy!

 

[alfredian]

congratulations on a good purchase

congratulations on a good purchase

My first Leica was (still have it) an M4-P (with a solid metal grip thrown in). Very well built, very sturdy and yes, most of them were built with steel drive trains, not the original M4 all-brass. This was to accomodate/tolerate the "Professional" (hence the "-P") option of a battery powered rapid winder option for the press/sports pros.

I enjoy the lack of the in-the-way-&-never-used self-timer. The big red dot logo thingy is a bit obvious, as is the brand name on the front plate. Still, I take performance & good guts over a pretty shelf queen most times. Enjoy one of the great unsung models of the Leica line up. Rumor is that when "L" opened up the Canadian satellite plant (in case somebody overran Germany from the East) the Canadian operation went overboard to ensure max quality - I think they succeeded. I just bought CaptMatt's Canadian Summicron 90/2 (black) stunning build-quality.--alfredian

 

[peterm1]

I owned an M4-P and experienced a couple of issues - neither of them, I suppose, too problematic but annoying. But I think both were more or less common.
The first and worst is that the flash sync port tended to break. The metal external port was screwed into a plastic block inside the camera. Perhaps the plastic was to stop shorting from the current but in any event it could degrade over time. When the plastic block broke, the sync port could drop off. More of a cosmetic issue unless you use flash. I bought a replacement on the internet and intended to repair my camera but never got around to it before selling the camera. My flash port mechanism replacement for my M4-P is still somewhere in my desk drawer where it will be found by some antiquarian in years to come who will wonder what it is. A religious item perhaps by someone who worshiped at the church of E. Leitz.

The second issue I think a few others also reported as being an issue is that there seemed to be some kind of outgassing inside the top cover of the rangefinder housing which fogged the viewfinder over time. Easily fixed by a repairer and again just a nuisance.

Other than these annoyances it seemed to be a good reliable camera. Though by Leica standards starting with the M4-2 (its predecessor) they did start to make some parts more cheaply. Which may account for the above issues. (I seem to recall something about the frame counter dial gears being plastic ????)

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Don't know why, but they added different gasket material in the area under viewfinder. As result if camera gets extra heat, it evaporates on VF top plate window. It is DIY to fix it, with documented procedure and MiC cheap, but handy round wrench kit.

 

[x-ray]

I have my second M4P and really like them. I bought my first new and used it professionally for quite a number of years without any issues. I eventually sold it and got an M6. The only advantage of the M6 was the internal meter.

A couple of years ago I bought a mint M4P and have used it regularly since. It did have ha e in the VF but I opened it up which is quite easy if you have the tools and cleaned the VF. After a few years of use, no issues at all.

They're excellent cameras so make great images.

 

[Ronald M]

Impure zinc that bubbles under plating. Not every one has it , but if clean now probably ok now.

 

[Rob-F]

I miss my M4-P. It had the correctly sized 50mm frameline, unlike the shrunken one in the M6 and subsequent models. And you know, I kind of likes the Leica red meatball down on the vulcanite, much more than on the top plate.

 

[benlees]

My first and only Leica. Didn't use it much so sold it on. Bought it beat up and sold as such. Worked perfectly; probably the nicest mechanical device I've used. As a glasses wearer and a 35mm user, might not have been the best choice! Attracted a lot of attention as well!

 

[ChrisLivsey]

Some recent regular browsing in our local camera shop has revealed an unusually large influx of Leica M items over the last few weeks.

Tom

From the UK: and where is that please, there is a distinct lack of Leica gear here S/H due to the "flaky" pound and other countries, outside the EU who can deduct the 20% VAT, have been actively hoovering up the better quality items ?

 

[HuubL]

The M4-P came in two versions. The first models had a brass top cover, in later ones this was zinc. This made that the viewfinder framing was different too. In later ones this was plastic, like on the M6. Earlier ones had a frame like the M2 and original M4.

 

[Bille]

but I'm used to this from my M6TTL as well.

Does the M4-P have any troublesome traits?

As far as I remember, the M4-P is basically a M6 without light meter. Fine camera.

 

[michaelwj]

The only thing not to like about the M4-P is the logo on the front. Not the logo itself, but that it's slippery and my finger always seemed to rest there. It just felt a bit insecure. It wasn't, but it just felt it. I only used one for a few days though and I could live with it just fine if I had no other choice. I prefer a self timer or battery cover there to "grip", but I'm not everyone.

 

[Fjäll]

Framelines for 28mm and the hotshoe are nice additions to the earlier models. It also has a more refined and tactile mechanical feeling than the earlier brass-geared M's. It's not the prettiest M but it is a great tool nontheless.

 

[Fjäll]

double post

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

The M4-P is my favorite M. I've got an M4 now, which is great, but I miss those 75mm framelines. My dream film M would probably be a brass-top M4-P, refinished in black paint.

 

[leicapixie]

Have it CLA'ed and enjoy!

Why CLA every camera? if it ain't broke, leave alone!
Leica M are built for the long haul.
Sure i serviced, when shutter fell apart, Rf totally screwed,
strap lugs pulled out.. Many services over many years use.
M3 is 50 years in service, mostly heavy pro work.😀

Right now, Light Leak when I change lenses,
Waste a frame, cheaper than Major service.

Use, use and ENJOY.
PS. My Pentaxes NEVER have needed service..😀

 

[EarlJam]

I have both an M6 TTL .85 and M4-P (mfg'd in 1980, so not sure where it falls in the brass vs. zinc list). I generally use the M6 TTL for color and M4-P for B+W.

The framelines in the M4-P are substantially brighter than those in the M6 TTL. A work colleague had an M6 and its framelines were similarly bright to the M4-P.

Re the PC connectors, Youxin Ye advised to not use them, just the hot shoe. They're apparently mounted on a plastic piece that becomes quite fragile over time.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

When I got my Anniversary M4-P it had the foggy viewfinder so I sent it off to Youxin. While there, I had the red dot removed, the 135mm framelines removed and the camera recovered in Aki Asahi material, I forget if it was 4008 or another texture. Either way, the camera came back and was amazing. It's since been sold (I needed the money that year) and is in use by another RFF member halfway around the globe. If I were to get another Leica M body now, it would be a black M4-P and I would make the same modifications.

Phil Forrest