M5 curiosity

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SurlaCraque

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Hey guys, I'm interested in getting my first M camera and I'm considering an M5. Yeah I know it's an "orphan" Leica and generates strong feelings one way or another. For rangefinders I currently have a IIIf and a Konica Auto 1.6. I'm looking for a user, not a collector piece. Budget is an issue.

I've never used an M. One of first questions about the M5 is about servicing. Any Leica will eventually need servicing and fortunately since they are well made and have such a loyal following you can find experts who will repair them. Well, except I get the feeling that this isn't necessarily true of the orphan M5 and CL.

Of course I have several questions but servicing is the main one to begin with.
I understand that Sherry Krauter is the M5 guru but judging by her bio she must be in her 60s at least, so I'm wondering how long she will continue to service cameras.
I understand DAG has serviced M5s but it seems like he's always very busy and I'm guessing getting up towards retirement age as well.
Youxin Ye, who serviced my IIIf, does not take M5s, and I understand that he's not the only Leica repair guy who doesn't.

Does anyone know another person or shop that will reliably take in M5s and turn them around?

TIA
 
I have an M5, which I enjoy immensely, but I did have some early frustrations with servicing that were eventually hammered out. I bought mine from KEH and it appeared almost new, however, unbeknownst to me, the metering arm was broken (it would stay in the up position, which meant I got lots of lovely pictures of the metering arm). Fortunately, KEH serviced the camera under their warranty--which in my case meant shipping it to Leica in Germany--and it has worked fine ever since (more than a year). I realize this is a somewhat long-winded answer, but I'd recommend 1) buy from KEH or used from a Leica store, and 2) KEH is able to service M5s (or send them to someone who can). Then again, since they are a but more niche than other Ms, the turnaround time on repair took a couple months.
 
Sherry has service my M5. If you call, at least in my experience, she will answer the phone. I trust Sherry but like all artisans/experts...has her cherished opinions.
 
If you look around and take your time, you could get user M2.
M5 is nice, but its RF/VF is just little bit far from the corner. You would al always have to turn your head in, but true beauty of M is in keeping your head straight and have your both eyes looking straight as well.
 
Buying an M5 from a store is sound advice, especially if it's from Adorama, KEH or something more especialized, like Tamarkin in Chicago. Parts may be hard to find, but then, you're guaranteed to get cameras in good shape when they come from stores. I know that meter arms are no longer available (unless they're cannibalized from another camera), but I think that's about the most difficult part to get.
 
Agree with SolaresLarrave. Keep to those sellers and all should be good. M5 is quite solid so if it is working right now, it should last you quite a few years, unless something extreme happens.

Quite a fun camera to use IMHO.

Marcelo
 
I won’t use Sherry again, DAG would get the work.

I got my M5 here on RFF, about 1/3 the price that people are asking for M6s nowadays. Ergonomically superior, IMHO
 
Be aware that silver bodies tend to go for a premium (there were fewer made), so your best bet is a black one. Then, I have sent my M5s to both, Don and Sherry. She had my black camera, which had a lot more issues. I sent Don my silver body when the meter suddenly died (on its own, after the warranty had expired). Sherry was a lot quicker than Don. You take your pick, but in case of doubt, check with an experienced seller like Dan Tamarkin from Tamarkin.com. In fact, he sold me my silver M5 body... it was a beauty that came in its original box! 😉
 
Thanks for all the replies folks. Ok so maybe I wasn't clear in my OP about my concerns regarding servicing the M5. I'm aware that in N.A. Sherry K or DAG will service M5s. My concern is that I'm guessing Sherry is in her 60s and I don't know about DAG but seems like he's very busy. Let's say I get an M5 soon, hopefully in good working condition and knock wood it doesn't need service for 5-10 years. I'm not a super heavy user. Ok so in 5-10 years I'm guessing Sherry could be retired and Don too for all I know or perhaps he decides to give up on M5s like many other Leica techs have, leaving me with what? An expensive paperweight and wishing I'd bought a M2 or 4 for about the same money.
Are there other repair folks, ideally in N.A., that work on these cameras? Does Leica repair them?

Ko.Fe. the M2 is another Leica that appeals to me. It's svelte, all mechanical, classy. But I was thinking that as a user camera, the M5 has a lot more to offer. A meter obviously. Shutter speeds in the viewfinder and a dial that overhangs the top plate and is designed to be operated with your finger while holding the camera up to your eye. A better rewind and film loading system. I already have a IIIf to satisfy my desire to have a compact jewel-like camera from another age.

I would like to be able to shoot slides on the camera hence my interest in the meter. And I'm not confident enough to take even a lot of B&W shots without doing some metering. I guess there's the Leica MR meter that mates to the M2, or the more current Voigtlander, but there not as integrated.

I don't think I can afford a M6 and certainly not a 7. But honestly I feel like I'd rather have a M5 than either of those anyways. Although I've never used one. I should probably try to find one to handle...
 
Have an M5 (on loan as shooting with M2 presently while traveling) and your observations are correct. It took Leica several years to get the design right and it was meant as the next step in the evolution of the rangefinder camera. The shutter speed dial and shutter speed in the vf make it the best shooter available. By the way, I bought my M5 from Sherry after she had gone through the camera.

I also enjoy the M2, especially the single frame lines in the viewfinder. There is a reason the .72 finder became the standard compared to the one in the M3. It is my favorite meter less Leica. I will be swapping the M2 back for the M5 when I return to the US in 6 weeks.

Either camera works but for shooting slides, the M5 arguably has the BEST meter Leica ever put in a camera. If you can find a good one, go for it. See fotopia.com.hk in Hong Kong has an M5 new in box. It is on their webpage.
 
I have two M5s, both with the original L seal, and both working perfectly. When I decide to get them a CLA, they will go to Sherry. Sherry likes to say she was born the same year as the M3, which was 1954. So she is 66; or maybe 65 going on 66.
 
SurlaCraque said:
Thanks for all the replies folks. Ok so maybe I wasn't clear in my OP about my concerns regarding servicing the M5. I'm aware that in N.A. Sherry K or DAG will service M5s. My concern is that I'm guessing Sherry is in her 60s and I don't know about DAG but seems like he's very busy. Let's say I get an M5 soon, hopefully in good working condition and knock wood it doesn't need service for 5-10 years. I'm not a super heavy user. Ok so in 5-10 years I'm guessing Sherry could be retired and Don too for all I know or perhaps he decides to give up on M5s like many other Leica techs have, leaving me with what? An expensive paperweight and wishing I'd bought a M2 or 4 for about the same money.
Are there other repair folks, ideally in N.A., that work on these cameras? Does Leica repair them?
Click to expand...

If it were me I wouldn't worry too much about service down the road, the additional complexity of the M5 is pretty much all about the meter. If that were to fail, it's still usable and serviceable just like any other M. Just make sure to get a solid camera to begin with.

It might help to post a question to Sherry or DAG regarding the meter cell; are replacements cells available from electronics parts suppliers? Have either of them replaced the factory cell with such a part?
 
We don't have any Leica trained technicians left in Canada. Some are not with us anymore, some retired. Nobody replaced them. Same will happen in USA.
Leica service price is equal to the camera price.

Today I would not consider old Leica M cameras as "investment". If camera works it will lasts another five years with light, but periodical use. Under 1K$ is 200 USD for each year over five years. Here is no cheap ways to own and use film M over years. They aren't Nikkormats.

Buy M you want. Use it for one year, send it for service and use it another five years with confidence.

As for meter, here is next to none difference between TTL in mechanical camera and handheld meter.
Except handheld works with any camera 🙂.
 
Rob-F said:
I have two M5s, both with the original L seal, and both working perfectly. When I decide to get them a CLA, they will go to Sherry. Sherry likes to say she was born the same year as the M3, which was 1954. So she is 66; or maybe 65 going on 66.
Click to expand...

Parts went missing from my M5 after Sherry serviced it. That DAG had to replace.
VF flared like crazy when I got it back, never did before. She denied all knowledge. DAG said a condenser had gone missing and replaced it. Then it was perfect again.
So....

To the OP, one really important thing to check is to make sure the RF patch is completely clear/even. When I got my M5 I was not familiar with what to look for, and my RF patch had streaky marks on it. Worked fine for a while but this was the sign that it was delaminating. Sure enough, one day it was solid black and I could not focus it until it was repaired (about $350).
So make sure to check that any M5 you look at it has a clear RF patch.
 
Ko.Fe. said:
Today I would not consider old Leica M cameras as "investment". If camera works it will lasts another five years with light, but periodical use. Under 1K$ is 200 USD for each year over five years. Here is no cheap ways to own and use film M over years. They aren't Nikkormats..
Click to expand...

The meters fail in Nikkormats, then you pretty much have an M2 SLR..

But a meter less Nikkormat is arguably a better camera than a meter less F, as you still get to see the shutter speed in the VF. And is much cheaper.
 
Just to reiterate my earlier point, Leica Germany is able to repair M5s (they replaced the entire metering arm in my camera). Also, it appears as though Sherry has a serviced M5 available for sale on her website. What better way to assuage your concerns than by buying a recently serviced M5 direct from the service provider?

http://www.sherrykrauter.com/store/leica-m5-1
 
Ko.Fe. said:
We don't have any Leica trained technicians left in Canada. Some are not with us anymore, some retired. Nobody replaced them. Same will happen in USA.
Leica service price is equal to the camera price.

Today I would not consider old Leica M cameras as "investment". If camera works it will lasts another five years with light, but periodical use. Under 1K$ is 200 USD for each year over five years. Here is no cheap ways to own and use film M over years. They aren't Nikkormats.

Buy M you want. Use it for one year, send it for service and use it another five years with confidence.

As for meter, here is next to none difference between TTL in mechanical camera and handheld meter.
Except handheld works with any camera 🙂.
Click to expand...

Solid points. I hope it will still be possible to service purely mechanical Leicas (and other high quality cameras) for a long time. I have to assume that part of the value in old Leicas is due to the rabid fan base and the fact that they can still be overhauled. Heck, I recently had YYE camera CLA my 1952 IIIf! There are a few places your M2 can be still be serviced. My concern with the M5, though it appeals to me for a number or usability reasons, is that due to its relative rarity and especially the unique meter parts, it will become no longer repairable sooner than other Ms. I can barely afford to get into Leica M system as it is, and I don't want to spent a grand on something that's useless in 5 years...

Yeah I have a Sekonic that I use with my IIIf, or I just use a free iPhone light meter app, but it is nice to have onboard metering for ease of operation, especially if it's useable in the viewfinder. My main film camera is a Minolta XD-11 and the metering is just really well thought out and does a great job even with E6 film. I would like to learn how to "use the force" and develop the light meter between my ears though. I.e. with my IIIf just use Sunny 16, at least for outdoor scenes with forgiving B&W film.
 
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